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The Chatterbox => Random Chat => Topic started by: Bobbias on September 24, 2007, 02:32:43 PM
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Ok, here's the deal. I've been fixing my mom's computer for a while now because she got it infected with a virus, the net got destroyed somehow ( couldn't even ping someone, because winsock was destroyed somehow). I reinstalled windows after trying to get rid of the virus, and now, it won't boot.
Whenever we turn the computer on, the BIOS loads and run, and then just the instant windows is supposed to load, the computer shuts off. It doesn't reboot, it just shuts off. I know it's not the power supply, because we swapped it out for another one we knew worked, and the problem persisted. I know it has to be windows because I can boot into sage mode. Anyone know what's happening with windows, or why it isn't booting. I'm going to try to reinstall windows again, but I have no idea if that will work, so if anyone has any ideas, let me know.
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The virus probably hammered enough system files or drivers to make the system unusable -- it's not too uncommon, really. When you reinstall over an in-place installation it keeps the registry and drivers in place, as well as some newer system files (I believe). The only real way to make sure that the system is fine is to do a fresh reinstall.
If you want to try something else before you do that, pop the Windows CD in the drive, boot into safe mode, and try going start -> run -> "sfc /scannow". If the system file checker will willingly run under safe mode this may help.
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Ok, I'll try the safe mode file checker. And it was a fresh install. I formatted the drive before I reinstalled because of the winsock problem (it was completely trashed, lol, I've never seen something cause even pings to error out, citing problems with winsock.)
She got hit by at least 1 trojan and the virtumonde virus, plus a couple others, and since I couldn't be sure they were all gone, I just formatted it because that's the fastest way to be sure they're gone. There was nothing wrong with the system untill a couple dayys ago when this started, so it's pretty mysterious.
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It really didn't even work after a full reformat? Are you sure there's not another hardware issue?
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It ran fine for a long time before my mom got it for work, it only started acting up after she got the virus.
This also isn't the first time I've seen a computer do weird thins even after a full reformat.
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I've also seen weird things happen to computers without an OS.
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formats are for wussies
http://dban.sourceforge.net/
run it, partition, format, install windows
if that doesn't work, try one of the more heavy-duty settings
if that doesn't work, try installing linux instead of windows lolz
if that doesn't work, you've maybe got a shitty harddrive, and it should be replaced
if you replace your drive and the computer STILL doesn't work, have her get a new computer and make this one useful by making it a paperweight or something... i dunno paint a target on it and practice your aim with various weapons or something, or stash your illegal drugs inside the case
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Uhh, it's my MOM's computer we're talking about, so I can't trash it (it was a work computer at my dad's office before he downsized), and it's being reused because we don't have the money to buy another one, and I'm fixing it because we can't afford to send it to some techie who will make us pay WAY too much for hat had to be done.
I can't even use this computer to place dban on a disk anyway. I disconnected my floppy drive a while ago, and even though I reconnected it and my computer says nothing's wrong, it doesn't work, lol. (and that computer is kinda fucked, so it kinda eliminates that option as well, lol)
Oh, and it isn't that it has no OS, it's that apparently windows sucks at reformatting, lol.
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...if you can't afford a new computer, why are you using Windows? If it's an old computer it's hardly fit for hardcore gaming, and if it's going to be decimated by a virus you might as well try Linux. Mothers and the computer illiterate can pick things up more easily than you'd think, and the OS is far more malware-resistant and has far fewer 'wtf' quirks.
As for reformatting, I'd strongly suggest gparted, it has a 20mb livecd iso, or you could go with one of the awesome livecd rescue disks like knoppix, DSL or Wolvix. Windows formatting is a joke... not only can you not resize things, it detects three different types of partitions, and everything else doesn't even show up. So you're working blind and... gaugh. Woefully inadequate.
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First off, I'm not going through and installing linux because 1) my mom would say no, because she is semi-computer literate, she can do some stuff on her own fine, but swithing to linux would royally fuck her up, 2) I'm not going through the bother of it.
...if you can't afford a new computer, why are you using Windows?
The hell does that mean? Sounds like a mindless windows bashing comment to me, and though I agree windows has it's flaws, I use it, so I can't complain too much. (And I kept mine running virus free for over 6 months with NO antivirus whatsoever, until my brother infected it.)
I'm seriously trying to get my mom to switch out of MS outlook, considering that program is a steaming pile of horse shit.
The main thing the computer is used for is A) browsing real estate websites, one of which requires some IE specific scripting to work, so we need IE (she knows FF is safer, but can't use the site in it.) B) emails, which I'm really going to try to get her to use something either than outlook for, and other misc sites and such. She really doesn't use it for much else.
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Pssh, Solaris's partitioning tool makes DOS fdisk look advanced. It literally doesn't detect anything but Solaris partitions. Also, Vista does support resizing (finally). Also, I'm sure my dad's Pentium II in the garage will disagree with the assertion that Windows needs a new computer. It's happily running XP. :P
And...really, if you reformat a drive and the system is still acting up, odds are it's a hardware issue. Windows may be lacking in a lot of ways, but when you format a drive the contents definitely get wiped (not securely wiped, but good enough so that viruses can't go "lol attack tiem" when you reinstall); no question about it.
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I think I'll swap harddrives from the computer I stole the power supply from. I'll see if it was the harddrive that's the problem. (I'll just toss it into this computer and check it out with some tools, lol.)
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Step 1) Get UBCD (http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/).
Step 2) Run Drive Fitness Test.
Step 3) FIND OUT THE TRUTH.
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Solaris
Lol, my dad works for Sun microsystems, no joke. He's the guy that updates everyones technology by selling them more computers/servers.
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Well, if I make a bootable CD I'll have to go buy some CDs, I don't have any blanks around, lol, only DVDs, and that comp doesn't have a DVD drive.
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Heh, that's not a bad gig.
So, uh, think he could hook me up with a free SPARC workstation? ;)
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Haha, yeah, a free SPARC workstation would be pretty cool, lol.
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I have no clue what you guys are talking about, but I have seen a portable server the size of a freight train. My dad also brings home random shit, like the shitty little server he brought home. I need to inspect this piece of shit now.
EDIT: hey nerds, tell me what this does http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt_Qube, because I have one.
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Like the others have said: tested personally as well by me. I put the BootNnuke on a flash drive, loaded that sucker up, boom. HD obliterated. Tried to install windows, no. Tried to install Fedora, no. Ubuntu, no. HD generally fucked. Bought a new HD. Loaded ubuntu right on. Boom
:D
This is a laptop that had been dropped, thus damaging the HD in some way, also, When it DID have windows on it originally, it reacted the same way as you have described. So get a cheap HD, install windows. Throw that other one out the window, unless you want to buy a special HD clearing magnet which I am sure costs more than a HD you could just replace.
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Well, if I make a bootable CD I'll have to go buy some CDs, I don't have any blanks around, lol, only DVDs, and that comp doesn't have a DVD drive.
paypal me a dollar and I'll mail you 3 disks
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First off, I'm not going through and installing linux because 1) my mom would say no, because she is semi-computer literate, she can do some stuff on her own fine, but swithing to linux would royally fuck her up, 2) I'm not going through the bother of it.
Most linux distros have been completely non-bothersome for some time. I used to be a vehement linux abhorrer. Then I tried Ubuntu for a week. A lot of vehement linux haters are converted by this process, or so I hear. The dumb-fuck fags in #gay on Austnet have started switching to Ubuntu. The 'linux is very hard to use, or so i hear' argument is becoming increasingly irrelevant. There are also several window managers and desktop-environment tweaks to get things looking and working exactly like windows.
The hell does that mean? Sounds like a mindless windows bashing comment to me, and though I agree windows has it's flaws, I use it, so I can't complain too much. (And I kept mine running virus free for over 6 months with NO antivirus whatsoever, until my brother infected it.)
No, that was more of an 'I know you pirate software. This saddens me. Why not try the equivalent software that does essentially the same job and sometimes better for the same price economically and cheaper, ethically' comment.
And I don't appreciate the 'mindless window bashing' comment you made there. I may make a lot of rash decisions, but my opinion on operating systems is pretty rock solid and justified. I've installed windows a few times since switching permanently to linux and each time I give it a good chance to prove its worth. Each time, in under a week, I switch back because it becomes clear how agonizing windows can be, and needlessly so when I have a better alternative. I'm not being elitist, I'm just attempting to spread the lurve.
The main thing the computer is used for is A) browsing real estate websites, one of which requires some IE specific scripting to work, so we need IE (she knows FF is safer, but can't use the site in it.) B) emails, which I'm really going to try to get her to use something either than outlook for, and other misc sites and such. She really doesn't use it for much else.
msie6 runs superbly in wine, and doesn't drag everything else around it into a pit of crash when you try to do something nasty like WGA. As far as I can tell, most email clients (though I use web-based ones usually) are generally modelled after outlook. In under an hour you could probably pick up the basics.
Now, I was just making a suggestion here - I'd appreciate some tolerance over a person's opinions that aren't your own.
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EDIT: hey nerds, tell me what this does http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt_Qube, because I have one.
IT'S CUTE.
It's described as a "server appliance," which I believe is sort of like a server without the hassle and drudge-work -- you tell it what you want it to run, do some quick configuration work, and it does it.
The 'linux is very hard to use, or so i hear' argument is becoming increasingly irrelevant. There are also several window managers and desktop-environment tweaks to get things looking and working exactly like windows.
The real issue that Linux still has is that no matter how much window dressing you throw on it you'll still run into problems when people try to install things that aren't in their distro. For someone like you or me, doing "./configure && make && sudo make install" is simple, but not for everyone. Debian and its derivatives still have their share of dependency hell issues, especially when dealing with third-party repositories and the like. You should have seen the absolute hell I went through when I made the mistake of adding an unstable apt source on my laptop when I tried putting Debian back on it a few days ago (before quickly rushing back to the sanity of Gentoo...should have known better than to try to go bleeding edge on Debian, of all distros).
Linux works great when you get it working, the issues that many would-be Linux users typically involve doing things that their distro doesn't directly support. When you get to that point, things tend to just go into a downwards spiral because there's very little in the *nix world that's consistent across even the same base product.
One of the biggest advantages of Windows is that you can just sit down in front of a system and be able to easily use it. While there have been some changes since Windows 95 came out, all of the versions from Windows 95 to XP all handle basically the same. With *nix, you might use KDE while your friend uses GNOME while his friend uses Enlightenment while his girlfriend uses Xfce while her mum uses WindowMaker while her Solaris-using husband clings to his old-school CDE desktop and his dog has Fluxbox installed in his food dish. While KDE and GNOME share a lot of similarities (I find that going from one to the other is about as significant of a change as going from Windows to Mac OS -- different, but similar), many of the other environments use wildly different design principals from the next and, taking that idea one step further, many of them are so customizable that, despite the fact that you might be going from one Fluxbox-powered setup to the next, it's going to look, feel, and behave a lot differently.
It's both good and bad -- good because you can have your computer do what you want it to do, bad because there is no consistency and, in many cases, far too many options for your average Joe to wrap their head around.
msie6 runs superbly in wine
So does Office 2003...heh.
and doesn't drag everything else around it into a pit of crash when you try to do something nasty like WGA.
Honestly, I don't recall ever having IE crash in recent history. It has a long way to go before it's standards compliant, but it isn't all that crash-happy in my experience (and, seeing as I've had to do online classes that require the use of IE, I'd say I have a fair amount of experience with it).
As far as I can tell, most email clients (though I use web-based ones usually) are generally modelled after outlook. In under an hour you could probably pick up the basics.
It's not always that simple. One of Outlook's chief advantages is that it interoperates with the other Office applications. It's also a bit more than just an e-mail client -- it's sort of like a desktop version of Palm OS, with contacts lists, a lovely appointment calendar, to-do lists, et cetera. About the only single-application solution that I can think of that could possibly be a true substitute for it is Evolution (http://www.gnome.org/projects/evolution/) (I believe KDE has the same functionality, but if I remember correctly it isn't a tight, integrated interface -- they're all separate applications).
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I've used linux before, so I know what I'm getting into, but honestly, my mom just wants her computer back the way it was, or as close to it as she can get. She would just flat out refuse to switch even if I made every argument I could. Plus, the simple process of running IE6 in wine would piss my mom off.
And for your information, as many problems as I see in windows, I simply like the interface better; I'm too accustomed to it. And personally, this computer runs like a charm. Plus, I like winamp, lol, and wine doesn't. Though overall, I would actually be running linux right now if x windows didn't hate my monitor and refuse to work properly with it, and actually refuse to even load up automatically (and I don't like rummaging around in console linux unless I need to.)
The whole point about why I'm not going to switch my mom over is that she simply won't. I could possibly persuade her, but I'd have to spend more time showing her how to do everything all over again, and I HATE trying to teach my mom to do something on the computer. I HATE working with her and a computer in the same room for that matter. I just want to get this over with, because as far as I'm concerned, I never want to fix anyone else's computer again. I'm sick of being the only person who can fix things around here, but nobody else cares enough to learn, so I'm fucked, since we can't afford to send it away.
Spec has hit the nail on the head with that one. And my mom does use that contact list option (which ended up getting wiped accidentally when I had it backed up on a thumb drive I accidentally formatted at the same time as the hard drive)
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When I call msie6 unstable I'm talking about the fun time I had last installing XP. The first thing to crash was internet explorer. While I was installing updates. The only other thing that was running was a backgrounded instance of firefox- this for some reason killed explorer and froze the system pleasantly enough that I could escape by manually killing the process. Which is of course, infinitely less convenient than doing exactly the same thing in linux. -_-
I recommend Ubuntu over Debian to new folker because despite being practically the same damn thing, Ubuntu actually does a professional job of maintaining repositories and ironing out kinks in the package management system. The 'click, click, close' method is brilliant. I prefer Debian for a lot of tasks, but the two (again, despite being practically identical) are incomparable when it comes to things like desktop performance and ease of use.
Back to internet explorer, when installing programs using the windows installer in wine, you still get icons on the desktop and in the 'start' menu. The Ubuntu developers have made a lot of efforts to crush any need for a console, ever. 7.10 goes even further with things like 'bullet-proof x'.
Also, I've seen winamp running in wine perfectly, but when you've got something like Amarok there's really no need for it.
Out of interest, what was wrong with your monitor? I deal with a lot of completely obscure and bizarre hardware including monitors and I've never had X just quit over it. Are you sure it wasn't a video card issue?
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I'm running an Asus AL1916W widescreen monitor witht he default resolution 1440x900 and for some reason whenever I try to get x windows to work, my monitor is blank and says something about no signal, or some such message (it's been a while, and I don't want to wait 2 years for grub to load so I can check out the message)
Oh, and when I'd tried to get winamp to work in wine, it complained about missing a DLL (some sound related one) and it looked like ass (windows95 grey instead of the default black/green style)
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IT'S CUTE.
Hahah, that's exactly what I thought, I was like "donno, but it looks cool!"
Also linux guys: does Ubuntu have Beryl support? Because nothing gives me a hardon for linux like Beryl.
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When I call msie6 unstable I'm talking about the fun time I had last installing XP. The first thing to crash was internet explorer. While I was installing updates.
Yeah, I've never had that happen before. :/ Are you sure there wasn't a problem with the hardware?
Out of interest, what was wrong with your monitor? I deal with a lot of completely obscure and bizarre hardware including monitors and I've never had X just quit over it. Are you sure it wasn't a video card issue?
Like having an ATI card and trying to use the binary drivers. ;_;
Also linux guys: does Ubuntu have Beryl support? Because nothing gives me a hardon for linux like Beryl.
I'd imagine -- I've heard of a lot of Ubuntu users that used it.
Last time I tried it, Beryl and X.org compositing is viciously unstable. I've tried it on several systems and it's pretty much guaranteed to hard-lock at least once every couple of days.
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I can't even use this computer to place dban on a disk anyway. I disconnected my floppy drive a while ago, and even though I reconnected it and my computer says nothing's wrong, it doesn't work, lol. (and that computer is kinda fucked, so it kinda eliminates that option as well, lol)
DBAN has ISOs as well, if you have a CD-ROM drive... her computer DOES have one of those, doesn't it? :D
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Ubuntu 7.04 (the current version) ships with 'desktop effects', which is compiz. It works pretty sweetly, but because it's still new software it's not enabled by default. To enable, you go through the tricky process of system > preferences > desktop effects > yes.
Ubuntu 7.10 is going to ship with 'compiz fusion', which as I understand it is a reunion of compiz and beryl. It's enabled by default, so I'd assume the rigorous testing would say it's pretty damn stable now. Dunno about the ATi crap though. :P
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Oh, cool. Any like, real set time on the 7.10 release, then? Because that'd save me the trouble of configuration D:
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Some time in October. KDE4 comes out in December though. <3
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Oh, cool. I'll just hold off until then.
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KDE4 comes out in December though. <3
Woo! :D
I like how KDE4 looks so far. I can't wait. Not only does the environment itself rock, but they're probably going to be porting some of the stuff to Windows as well (which is awesome for me, given how much I use both systems).
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Woo! :D
I like how KDE4 looks so far. I can't wait. Not only does the environment itself rock, but they're probably going to be porting some of the stuff to Windows as well (which is awesome for me, given how much I use both systems).
Honestly I'm not sure how I feel about that. Seems that everything nifty that linux has, everything else must have a working port. Apache, the konqueror rendering engine, cups... okay, I just hate Apple. But I can see benefits in the porting, and plasma's sticking to X11 environments, which is neat. :P
What I've come to like most about KDE is its tight integration. It's got everything you'd ever probably need a computer for, all tightly integrated. There are a few nasty quirks and KDE can look just plain fugly without severe configuring (and KDE's theme management is vile) that I'm hoping KDE4 will fix. GNOME's ease of use, intuitive behaviour and out-of-the-box pretty is why people love it. If KDE4 goes and fixes these, there'll be one awesome desktop environment that has everything set to awesome instead of two that you'd have to pick between...
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Honestly I'm not sure how I feel about that. Seems that everything nifty that linux has, everything else must have a working port.
There's nothing wrong with that. If anything, it'll give people a taste of the penguin (so to speak). If people try KDE in Windows and like it, they may be inclined to give Linux a shot.
It'll also give people like me a bit more consistency. Not to mention that I just like some of KDE's tools better than some of the Windows ones (hello Kate, goodbye Notepad++).
Apache, the konqueror rendering engine, cups... okay, I just hate Apple.
Yeah, Apple really loves to make it look like they actually wrote OS X.
As for the parts that they actually did write...well, let's just say that in my experience, OS X runs like ass compared to XP and every X11 environment I've used, even on superior hardware.
What I've come to like most about KDE is its tight integration. It's got everything you'd ever probably need a computer for, all tightly integrated.
Mmm, yes.
I've also found KOffice to be quite usable as a productivity suite. I prefer KWord and its brethren to OpenOffice. It might not have as many features but it sure makes a hell of a lot more sense.
GNOME's ease of use, intuitive behaviour and out-of-the-box pretty is why people love it.
I don't love it. ;) It's a fine product, I just don't care much for it for whatever reason.
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It's why the people that use it use it. :P
As for notepad++, have you tried notepad2? It's very pleasant. I prefer Kate, but... for windows. Very pleasant.
Then again, coding in Windows is like having teeth pulled. :|
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I would give Notepad2 a shot but...no tabbed document interface. :<
Actually, I don't mind notepad++. It's generally a pretty good editor. The biggest problem that I have with it is that it really really sucks at handling large documents (like Quake movie scripts...a couple of megabytes long). I literally have to use Wordpad for large files because notepad++ is incredibly sluggish with them.
And really, coding directly for any platform is usually like having teeth pulled. I prefer to either have much of the nitty-gritty work involved with manipulating windows abstracted or made into a point-and-click operation (using WinForms or something along those lines) or just use the console.
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Coding IN windows, not FOR windows. :P
The coding in windows experience for me has basically been:
1> install unnecessarily large packages to operating system... hope nothing breaks
2> Make simple 'hello world' app. Unnecessarily large IDE/compiler bundle creates a dozen other files and puts them in bizarre places.
3> Compile.
4> Go fishing in the mess for an executable file.
5> ???
6> Profit.
This is of course, excluding qbasic and the extension of freebasic. <3
Coding in linux I like much more because, well, the operating system is designed for a lot of compiling, and optimises itself to do it in the most convenient manner.
'tar xvf [blah]; cd [blah]; ./configure; make; sudo make install' is a far more streamlined process than anything windows has to offer in my opinion. There's so much... MESS. D:
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Visual Studio is quite fine for large projects. I've written a number of applications in that IDE and its debugging of .NET applications is top-notch and the responsiveness of the environment is good. The slowest part is starting it up and, with 2005, even that's not so bad.
Also, using something like MSYS or Cygwin essentially gives you a GNU userland under Win32. The two are a bit different in implementation but they still provide the same basic thing (though Cygwin gives you a bit more, allowing you to use X11 under Windows). Microsoft themselves even provide an environment with GNU tools and compilers for development (Windows Services for Unix, or whatever it's called).
Granted, it's not an out of the box experience, but you can still use the same ideas and utilities that you use in Linux in an Windows environment. Hell, you could probably even use Visual Studio to code with and set up build events that call the GNU tools if you wanted to. It's easily as flexible as any *nix setup, it's just different.
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Anyone ever tried programming for the SNES? Trust me, windows is a walk in the park after you've tried making something work in SNES ASM, lol.
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Oh, it could be worse. You have to have knowledge of how TVs worked to program for the Atari 2600, haha. I kinda figured a system like that would be rather basic -- easy to emulate and develop for -- until I read a bit more about it. Woo...
I mean, yeah, the fact that you had that much low-level control made it kinda flexible and combining a bunch of tricks made things like Pitfall possible (compare that to just about any Atari 2600 game -- except for Pitfall 2, of course), but...damn.
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Lol, Some tricks require you to process image data during HBlanks to get it to work right, and yets, you need to know some about TVs, or VBlanks and HBlanks wouldn't make sense to you, lol. I mean, Programming for the SNES is retarded, you do EVERYTHING. There's a reason there are so few SNES homebrew games :/
I tried learning, but it's just so damn time consuming, and hard that it's just not worth it. Plus there are so many limitations on what's possible :/
When I realized how much work needed to go into making even like, pong, I just went "Jesus fuck, I'm not doing that!"
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Heh, I don't think that the SNES is quite at the level of the Atari 2600. To do anything with the latter you needed to do all of that. At least with the SNES you didn't need tricks to get decent looking graphics. The Atari 2600 literally only allowed for two sprites, two missiles, a ball (literally, one pixel), and a playfield. The display is normally mirrored. In order to do anything substantial, you had to heavily modify the settings going to the graphics chipset as each scanline was being drawn. By rights, multicolor sprites aren't even supposed to be possible with the 2600, yet people have done it.
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Haha, yeah, I really wonder how they programmed Space Invaders, since all those enemies can't be treated as objects in any way. They're drawn to the play field, I assume? But how does it collision check? lol.
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I did a brief Google search but couldn't find anything. Pitfall did most of its rendering with software so that's always a possibility. Another possibility is that it constantly changes, in mid-draw, where the sprites are.
I'm kind of interested in finding out.
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This thread sucks and is now about how fucking awesome my desktop is. <3
(http://malwyn.box43.net/kdesktop.png)
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er um ya