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The Chatterbox => Gaming => Topic started by: vladgd on July 24, 2017, 04:04:10 PM

Title: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on July 24, 2017, 04:04:10 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/syrCLaq.jpg)

umm yeah, it's been 3 years, and I don't think I'm getting legion right yet. Just had the urge to grind a few alts I guess? Except I don't know whom. Probly juggle between this and Tekken until starcraft remaster is out.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on July 25, 2017, 12:29:14 AM
Hey, I raided that city a few times. ;)

Didn't really post this, but I managed to (finally) get Shadowmorne on my DK a couple weeks ago. Wheeeeeeee!

Oh, speaking of which, if you have even a sliver of an obsessive personality, have fun with the new raid appearance tracker. Blizzard made keeping track of raid transmogs muuuuch easier. Currently (slowly) working on getting the AQ set for my shammy.

And...speaking of that, transmogging got better in the recent patches. It's like Diablo 3 transmogging now, where you don't have to keep the gear in order to transmog to it--you just unlock the apearance and that's it. As you can imagine, void storage is basically useless now, and I was happy to finally be able to dump all of the gear that I'd been hoarding across multiple expansions.

Finally, Warlords got a ton of (well deserved) shit when it was the current expansion, but I found that the questing experience itself was extremely well done. Legion follows suit, though its endgame is significantly better (as in, it actually fucking exists).

So...yeah! Have fun! Hope you like the new(-ish) content! ;D
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on July 25, 2017, 12:56:11 PM
My first main was a troll shaman, resto in vanilla, ele in tbc before I shelved him.

Really...not...liking ele AT ALL. It feels like a totally different class like going from warlock to rogue different. So I went enhance to check that out (didnt like it in vanilla/tbc) and ended up enjoying it enough to prefer it to elemental, feels less squishy than I remember. So now im sitting at 78, not even sure if I want to continue. I might get er up to 80 so I'm at least up to cata content, but, not too hot on what they transformed shaman into.

So I'm hearing they made 1-60 super easy now? So I kinda want to try that out, but not sure on what class. Of the classes I don't have to post 60, I got...

Monk, not interested in the class at all
Druid, historically never liked having a cool looking player character transform into a lame looking npc bear or cat or tree or catbearbird thing. Might save the class for when I can con my gf into playing the game (which may never happen, she seems to be resisting my nagging)
Death Knight, hero class starts off at high level anyway. And I think I'll delete the gnome for a draenei whenever I decide to work on one.

So this leaves hunter or rogue. Both I'm interested in, might need to coin flip for it. People are saying 1-60 is like 6-8 hours, and I am curious if they're full of shit or not. Do I need full heirlooms for that stuff?
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on July 25, 2017, 07:41:00 PM
This is the first expansion that I've largely switched away from my DK. I don't like the changes that they made to blood, and I've put too much time into building a tank to really want to swap to frost or unholy. Blood pretty much went from being a timing-based self-heal class (Cata/Mists, and Warlords to a much lesser extent) that had a strong focus on managing debuffs on enemies, to forcing you to heavily micromanage runic power and a stacking bone shield buff, and...well, still trying to focus on heavy self-heals. Except now you can't do them nearly as often.

To give you a general overview of how DKs's resource management works, you have a rune -> runic power (RP) -> rune cycle. You spend runes, to get runic power, which you spend while your runes recharge. That's how it's always been, that's how it very likely will always be. In Wrath, the rune/RP cycle was very strict, at least as unholy--fuck up once, your cycle is b0rked and your DPS suffers until the next cycle. Cata through Warlords improved that drastically, shuffling around abilities so that you have a bit of wiggle room if you need to do an emergency heal or break off and kill an add, or something like that.

What blood has now is very much like what Wrath had. RP is much harder to get, and bone shields--which used to be a minor defensive buff for unholy players--went from being simply provided to blood to being the primary rotational focus for blood players. This is made tricky by the fact that 1) bone shields are taken away with every melee swing counted against a tank, which is a lot, obviously, and 2) even if the tank doesn't hold threat, the bone shield expires automatically after a while--you have no choice but to maintain it. Since bone shield is responsible for a 16% damage reduction and a 10% haste buff, you really, really need it up at all times.

Another thing that compounds this issue is that RP is now much harder to get. Before, RP generation felt more reliable. There seemed to be more ways that you can get it, including using anti-magic shell (AMS) and soaking magic damage. Now, even AMS barely gets you any RP back, to the point that it may as well not even do it at all. The only way to reliably get RP is to complete a full rune cycle.

That, in turn, significantly hurts our ability to strategically self-heal. Before, death strike--our main self-heal and self-shield ability--was powered by runes. Now, it's powered by RP. Before, we had a ton of ways to get runes back, so if we needed to do a clutch heal, we could pop a cooldown and do it. Now, if need a clutch heal, we need to nuke our rune/RP cycle and there aren't any CDs we can use to enable us to get a quick heal off. Since our healing is timing-based (a base amount, plus 5% of the damage taken in the last 5 seconds) we need to do the nearly-impossible task of lining up our resource generation cycles to damage spikes.

The situation actually feels worse than Wrath did, as we used to have the empower rune weapon available. That was a lovely CD that would give us some RP (20, I think) and reset all of our runes. That would allow us to do what we had to do and then effectively wipe the slate clean and start over. Nowadays, only frost gets that ability.

I raided with my DK when Legion dropped, and things were slightly worse then--we had strong magic mitigation but very little physical mitigation. We got back icebound fortitude (which everyone agrees should have never been removed) back in 7.1. However, the other problems with the class have had a drastic effect. One of the main reasons I didn't pursue raiding after my guild fell apart is simple--nobody in their right mind would want a DK tank. We were being actively rejected from raids because most people simply weren't good enough to get around those issues (even in Mists, where blood tanking was arguably at its peak, people still managed to fuck it up), and because we required a tank healer that could properly read us and know when we're resource starved. Yeah...not a great situation.

I do think that I'm a pretty damn good DK player. I've played them consistently since Wrath and have routinely managed to pull above-average stats, even on weaker specs (in Cata, when frost did noticeably higher DPS than unholy, I had one of the best frost DKs on my realm wonder how in the hell I managed to pull the numbers that I did as unholy), but this is a bit too much. Blood just isn't fun for me to play. Hopefully things turn around in the next expansion. If not, I'll probably go back to DPS.

</rant>

Maybe the reason you're not gelling with shaman is because shaman were a lot different when you played them. I'm familiar with how they were before (managing totems placement, etc) but I never played a pre-Mists shaman beyond level 25 or so. Personally, I had a ton of fun on my shaman in recent years (resto/enh in Mists, enh/ele now).

Be careful with DPS classes. When questing they feel pretty tanky in the new 1-60 content, as well as Cata. BC can still truck you if you're not careful, Wrath a bit less so. In Mists, however, enemies would absolutely wreck you if you pulled more than one or two of them at once (might have changed, but I remember the Mists question experience being pretty terrible as DPS when it was current). Warlords and Legion aren't nearly as unforgiving, but you still have to be mindful of what's going on around you, as it should be.

I imagine 6-8 hours for 1-60 would be with full heirlooms, but it's hard to say. Dungeons in particular seem to give quite a bit of experience at those levels, so maybe they're just chaining LFD or something. I haven't done the early game grind in quite a while. You can also upgrade your heirlooms to work through 1-90 or even 1-100 now. It's quite a gold sink, though. I rerolled my pally recently (was going to play with someone, but they abruptly decided that they wanted to play with their new friends instead--sigh), so I might just load up on plate heirlooms and try it for myself.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on July 25, 2017, 11:31:08 PM
Got the shaman to 80 thanks to how much nicer dungeon find queue works. Enhance is a lot nicer, but it ain't the class I grew up playing. Probably going to be swapping on alts until I can settle on leveling one to 100.

Rolled a draenei death knight to 58, plan on playing frost spec since I get the plate sword and board from the warrior, the plate 2h fucker from the ret paladin, dual wield sounds interesting so hopefully frost isn't a garbo leveling spec.

And then theres the "kinda wanted a hunter for the past 8 or so years but never got around to it, undead are finally able to be hunters which is what I wanted as far back as tbc....could do it" Something about the fantasy of undead hunter that sounds unique to me, same with monk...

Would help if I had a goal or people to play with, but I don't, so it's more with what sounds fun to solo with. Or what catches my eye this day. Because in theory, I would eventually like all classes to be max level.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on July 26, 2017, 01:35:24 AM
Yeah, nothing is the way it was. I don't think that move sets will ever be that intricate again.

That being said, I do like some of the new additions. The talent trees of old provided little more than an illusion of choice and typically only contained one or two viable paths. Downranking spells as a healer was a pain in the ass. Hunters using mana was always stupid (I even felt that way when I was playing BC). I like how the fights themselves tend to be far more active and intricate.

That being said, they stepped way too far from the roleplaying aspect. They did bring some of that back in Legion with the class halls (spoiler alert) but vanilla made you feel like you were a young pup finding their way in the world. I honestly regret not spending more time on my shaman, as the idea of going on trials to earn your totems was awesome. I guarantee that you'd be far more disappointed if you rolled a new shaman. There's just no depth there anymore--everyone goes on the same quests. Each zone takes you from point A to point B, then shuffles you off to the next area. Small voice acted bits and cutscenes replace the stories and lore items of old. In some cases it works, but the world feels less rich as a result of it.

And don't even get me started on some of the little cutscenes in the Cata content. Most of them are awful. At least Blizzard improved their visual and aural story dramatically in Warlords and Legion. The tropes that do remain are pretty awful, though (like the famous thing where the Big Bad of a particular arc stops taking damage at 1 HP, then yells, "YOU HAVEN'T BEATEN ME YET," before escaping in an illogical manner while your character sits there staring at them).

The DK specs are all pretty viable for leveling. Assuming nothing has changed, I'd probably swap to blood for the Mists content (despite my gripes above, it still offers insane survivability for solo content), but the stat revamps in Warlords might have made that a non-issue.

My first character was a hunter, and I've had a pretty good time with them. If you want to go really wild, melee hunters (survival spec) are a thing now.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on July 28, 2017, 11:24:00 PM
http://i.imgur.com/tWL3KLS.jpg

That's what I decided on as of current. I'll do the hunter after I get a few more heirlooms. Might level the paladin and mage side by side, using up rest exp on one before going to the other.

Yeah, nothing is the way it was. I don't think that move sets will ever be that intricate again.

That being said, I do like some of the new additions. The talent trees of old provided little more than an illusion of choice and typically only contained one or two viable paths. Downranking spells as a healer was a pain in the ass. Hunters using mana was always stupid (I even felt that way when I was playing BC). I like how the fights themselves tend to be far more active and intricate.

From what it looks to me as a person who jumps in every odd expansion, they gutted each class to make each spec feel more unique. On one hand, I can see it as a good thing, but on another (as someone who played the game weeks after launch) I really don't like abilities being removed. I loved shaman back in the day, and I don't think I want to play anymore now. Never was big into enhancement after vanilla (which was only for windfury lets face it), elemental feels...bad, and I heard earth shield was removed from resto and put into some "heroic tallents" bullshit? I guess I'm happy I moved from shaman to warrior, because I don't like the state of that class.

Also the hunter mana thing, I was saying hunters should have focus like their pets back in vanilla. Just like how mana doesn't fit a warrior or a rogue, it certainly doesn't fit hunter.


(like the famous thing where the Big Bad of a particular arc stops taking damage at 1 HP, then yells, "YOU HAVEN'T BEATEN ME YET," before escaping in an illogical manner while your character sits there staring at them).

That sucks, but it's also in a lot of other games, which, still sucks, I don't know why people do it. Last one I can think of is really recent, Tekken 7 story mode does that shit a few times. You do a fight, if you lose, you lose and have to redo it, but if you win...you lose in the cutscene...wut?

The DK specs are all pretty viable for leveling. Assuming nothing has changed, I'd probably swap to blood for the Mists content (despite my gripes above, it still offers insane survivability for solo content), but the stat revamps in Warlords might have made that a non-issue.

My first character was a hunter, and I've had a pretty good time with them. If you want to go really wild, melee hunters (survival spec) are a thing now.

I just hope frost isn't garbage for leveling, because aesthetically, I like it over the other two. And when I level my hunter, It's beastmaster. From what I seen beastmaster is traditional hunter, marks is ranged only NO PET (boooo), and survival is melee with pet. I'm cool with survival, but, I play enough melee classes as is.

However for the time being, I think I want to attempt to get one or two classes up to 100 before I think about getting legion. Hearing good things about mages, and I've been using it to farm old content for $$$, so I may as well keep at her. I remember loving ret soloing with the paladin, which isnt too far behind the mage, so that'll be the off character, I hope they didn't screw up paladins as well.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on July 30, 2017, 01:01:25 AM
From what it looks to me as a person who jumps in every odd expansion, they gutted each class to make each spec feel more unique. On one hand, I can see it as a good thing, but on another (as someone who played the game weeks after launch) I really don't like abilities being removed. I loved shaman back in the day, and I don't think I want to play anymore now. Never was big into enhancement after vanilla (which was only for windfury lets face it), elemental feels...bad, and I heard earth shield was removed from resto and put into some "heroic tallents" bullshit? I guess I'm happy I moved from shaman to warrior, because I don't like the state of that class.

That's a good point, and given several of the other changes (like how discipline priests play now, survival hunters becoming melee, etc) it does make a ton of sense. Now that you mention it, around the time of Cata/Mists, the class changes did make a lot of them play the same. The difference between a holy priest and a non-atonement disc priest was very subtle, as I remember.

The honor talent points thing is some PvP-only stuff. You unlock them by murdering people and you can only use them in bgs and arena. I'm not too crazy about that concept--to me, all it's doing is giving an advantage to people who have been playing longer. If they reset it per season, that would probably be okay. I don't really have any interest in PvP, though, so I dunno.

Also the hunter mana thing, I was saying hunters should have focus like their pets back in vanilla. Just like how mana doesn't fit a warrior or a rogue, it certainly doesn't fit hunter.

Same! In my experience, all it did was confuse primary stat priorities. I mean, if you see a mana bar in a game that actually does implement other stat bars (I was well aware that there were rage and focus bars), and the abilities have elemental properties--even if the class doesn't seem like it should use mana--how can you just intuitively know that you're supposed to only stat agility?

Sure, it became a bit more clear when you got aspect of the viper, but still.

That sucks, but it's also in a lot of other games, which, still sucks, I don't know why people do it. Last one I can think of is really recent, Tekken 7 story mode does that shit a few times. You do a fight, if you lose, you lose and have to redo it, but if you win...you lose in the cutscene...wut?

It's just laziness. There's plenty of other ways to script something like that. Blizzard seems to do it one of two ways: 1) make the boss invincible or 2) spontaneously immobilize the player. Both methods are used. It's still better than some of the shit they pulled in Cataclysm's cutscenes, but I'm definitely not a fan.

Hell, I'd be fine if they had the target run away at 50% health when they realized they were getting stomped. That would make a hell of a lot more sense than forcing them down to 1HP. Or, possibly, having them cast a last ditch spell to prevent the player from attacking them in some way while they escape. And, of course, not doing it multiple times in each zone would help a lot.

I just hope frost isn't garbage for leveling, because aesthetically, I like it over the other two. And when I level my hunter, It's beastmaster. From what I seen beastmaster is traditional hunter, marks is ranged only NO PET (boooo), and survival is melee with pet. I'm cool with survival, but, I play enough melee classes as is.

I think you'll be fine. You might have to take a rest every few pulls, but it should be doable without too much trouble. I haven't leveled anything through pre-Warlords content since the Legion patch dropped, though, so take that with a grain of salt. As far as I'm aware, though, none of the expansions are in a broken state at the moment.

And yeah, I'd love to try leveling my hunter as survival, but I also have a ton of melee classes. I dunno...we'll see.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on July 31, 2017, 11:51:28 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/yFKNzvK.jpg)

0 heirlooms, 91-100 didn't take all that long on the mage. Only problem is while leveling the mage I was contemplating the "free" 100 i'll get from legion collectors, and...really don't like how squishy mage is, and fuck cloth, but priest doe...

List in order. Priest > rogue = monk

With prot warrior, if I randomly aggroed everything, I'd simply kill it all. With ret? SAME THING, less tanky but heals to make up for it. Mage? just lie down and die, most likley wont escape even with frost nova blink and invis and shield, and die anyway. Fun in instances though, but soloing, bleh, don't like mage.

Sure priest is probably different, but...making me look more at monk now.

Anyway, paladin is next! Leveling is a bit more fast paced and fun, and the mage didn't even have heirlooms, so Id guess its only faster with them.

*edit*

Brainstorming alt race choices need to jot down before I forget.

Demon Hunter- Nightelf
Monk- Orc
Priest- Undecided, but I may keep the goblin I have, Dwarf is tempting me though, the old runepriest days of warhammer online bring fond memories
Rogue- ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? (ethereal, blizzard please make them playable)
Druid- I will roll a druid only when I have all other classes at the level cap. IE, never...probably?
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on August 01, 2017, 09:01:10 AM
0 heirlooms, 91-100 didn't take all that long on the mage. Only problem is while leveling the mage I was contemplating the "free" 100 i'll get from legion collectors, and...really don't like how squishy mage is, and fuck cloth, but priest doe...

The only cloth class I leveled was my priest. I can't really say much for the lower-level priest leveling experience now (my priest is one of my primary alts, and I initially leveled him in Wrath), but I can say that shadow is pretty enjoyable in Legion. Haven't tried healing with him yet.

List in order. Priest > rogue = monk

Monk healing is wonky as hell, so not sure if I'd recommend trying that unless you're in the mood for something really different. I still have yet to try monk DPS/tank.

With prot warrior, if I randomly aggroed everything, I'd simply kill it all. With ret? SAME THING, less tanky but heals to make up for it. Mage? just lie down and die, most likley wont escape even with frost nova blink and invis and shield, and die anyway. Fun in instances though, but soloing, bleh, don't like mage.

Sure priest is probably different, but...making me look more at monk now.

In my experience, priests have more "oh shi~" buttons than to mages. Mages seem to fit very cleanly into the holy MMO trinity while priests tend to have a more diverse toolset.

Monk- Orc

I dunno, the roll animation for tauren monks is pretty hilarious. :P

Rogue- ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? (ethereal, blizzard please make them playable)

I know someone who would do very lewd things to see ethereals become playable. If that ever happens, I'm race changing my rogue immediately.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on August 01, 2017, 09:42:52 PM
Not sure if it's new, or I read the store wrong, but I just seen that I didn't need collectors edition for my level 100 boost...so instead of leveling this paladin to 100 then buying legion, then using my boost on a fresh character...

Y'know...

(http://i.imgur.com/39km5Gz.jpg)

I'll level the paladin after my prot warrior is 110, and I'll level the prot warrior in legion content after I check out this shiny new priest. Male?! Dwarf?! Not another draenei for my space goat fetish?!

ASTOUNDING!

I'll probably be posting more on this game for a little while.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Bobbias on August 02, 2017, 10:12:11 AM
Wait, the cap is 110 now?
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on August 02, 2017, 10:15:58 AM
Yep. Cata and Mists incremented the cap by 5, Warlords and Legion both incremented it by the traditional 10.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on August 07, 2017, 06:34:59 PM
Not a bad idea to split up topics. Pretty small forum as is, so hopefully it promotes more conversation.

(http://i.imgur.com/6az03YI.png)

Got my warrior to 110...

Wait that's a mage?

My mentality initially was, leveling as a mage from 90-100 was a pain, I was dying and they made that shit easy and I'm still dying. Let's get that character done first so I won't have it on my mind, fuck mage soloing.

100-102 I started off with fire, the spec I wanted to play...and aesthetically I prefer fire over all 3, but gameplay, I HATE IT. Bought some green weapon to hold me over as FROST until I got the frost artifact. After around 102, gear flowed in, I got used to the playstyle, and I really damn enjoyed the leveling experience for mage in legion. I don't really raid or do endgame shit, mainly professions and some other random stuff, so doing a new character for an expansion was a good idea. I may do a different class in the next expansion even to mix it up? maybe? Iunno.

But the zones "feel" smaller and more compact, not sure if they actually are, or if they are just designed better. The story for each zone feels a lot more polished ending with an instance run into the meta thing to get artifacts. The "single player" aspect of going around and completing a zone like a level in a videogame is just getting better and better. Aesthetically I wasn't a big fan of the legion zones, but in terms of what they did with them, it's a thumbs up from me. I prefer the desolate harsh looking zones like blades edge, netherstorm, hellfire peninsula (i am the one guy who likes the way that zone looks), vanilla desolace, silithus, or even green lush zones that are just hard like vanilla un goro crater with no roads and enemies everywhere. But that's just a nitpick, it's an island region, can't expect vast deserts of wasteland. Also noting that there's a ton of rare mobs and tresure chests around the game, it feels like they basically did the same as draenor on paper, but in practice the execution was a lot better. I stopped caring about rares after shadowmoon in draenor, but I frequently went out of my way to hunt those stars and chests down in legion.

The legion specific stuff like having a weapon with a skill tree is great. The order halls for each class with its own story and base and whatnot is also fun, though I suppose it depends on class. I hear the hunter order hall was lame, and priests are basically cucks to the superior paladins, from what I read. Mages is pretty cool though, and class appropriate. The followers going on missions thing was toned down from draenor it looks like, but for the better, and just feels more polished.

So now I guess I need to get my shit in order to unlock world quests, after that...I may head back to the warrior to see how much of a pain in the ass unlocking draenor flying is, before going back to the mage to unlock legion flying, unless I get sidetracked leveling other characters, or stop playing, I kinda hit my main goal at this point.

So yeah, enjoying mage quite a lot in this expansion.

AND BEFORE I LEAVE THAT THING YOU SAID ABOUT FIGHTING A GUY AND THEN YOU BEAT HIM BUT LOSE ANYWAY

IT HAPPENS EVERY SINGLE TIME

I thought you meant it happens like a few times, which isnt a huge deal, but EVERY GODDAMN TIME THEY GET THE BEST OF YOU EVEN AFTER YOU KICK THEIR ASS, they gotta fix that shit for the next one because after the 5th time, I just gave up.

*edit*

Hitting 110, I realized how overwhelming everything is. I want to open world quests, but that's like the start of a long chain of stuff, idk where to start.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on August 08, 2017, 09:58:34 AM
Is fire still somewhat luck-based? Before pretty much all of the major abilities proc'd off of crit chance, so if you didn't have high amounts of crit and a ton of luck you couldn't effectively play that spec.

The zones might be a bit smaller than the ones in previous expansions, but they definitely feel a lot denser. It feels like they experimented with that in some parts of Warlords (the Spires of Arak feel very dense to me) but they went full hog with it in Legion. The flight master whistle also helps significantly by making sure that you don't have to walk through huge stretches of nothing just to get to the next area. That was particularly useful in Highmountain, in my experience.

As far as zone aesthetic goes, I think Warlords is probably my overall favorite. Not only was there a ton of variety, but I think it has the most "desolate but beautiful" zone in the entire game. You probably didn't see it if you only played Alliance and didn't go for the exploration achievements. When you have a chance, swing by Frostfire Ridge (it's the first Horde questing area, but you can walk through there safely if you're on a PvE realm). I don't think I can adequately describe how much I enjoyed the look of that area.

The weapon skill tree was a really nice feature. It reminds me of the Cataclysm talent trees in a way--they're subtle enough where a single point isn't game breaking, but they're strong enough that you can feel yourself steadily growing more powerful. A lot of people complain that Blizzard made it impossible to level alts and alt specs, but I find that getting the weapons to 13 (a pretty good sweet spot--it allows you to reliably get at least one gold talent) is a pretty quick endeavor, even when the expansion first dropped. Then again, I think a lot of the reason that people are bitching is because they can't get an array of BiS gear on all of their toons within a week or two anymore.

World quests are pretty much a cross of Diablo 3 bounties and Guild Wars 2 world quests. They're a pretty good way to kill some time, they aren't as tedious as older dailies (Mists' dailies sucked), and they aren't as mobile gamey as Warlord's "endgame." Still definitely a grind, but they're not bad.

I know you aren't crazy about your shaman, but I'd highly recommend using them to get Draenor flying. Unlike Legion, the treasures in Warlords are a pain in the ass to get to, and collecting them will dismount you. I have about half of the flight requirements done on my DK, but I'm strongly considering redoing some of that work on my shaman simply because ghost wolf would make some of that stuff more convenient.

Also, because some of the treasures are annoyingly hidden, here's two addons that should help out a bunch:

HandyNotes: https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/handynotes (https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/handynotes)
HandyNotes_DraenorTreasures: https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/handynotes_draenortreasures (https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/handynotes_draenortreasures)

Also, if you want a HandyNotes addon for Legion, LegionRares&Treasures is nice: https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/handynotes_legionrarestreasures (https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/handynotes_legionrarestreasures)

AND BEFORE I LEAVE THAT THING YOU SAID ABOUT FIGHTING A GUY AND THEN YOU BEAT HIM BUT LOSE ANYWAY

IT HAPPENS EVERY SINGLE TIME

Right?? Holy shit, that got obnoxious.

I honestly wouldn't be as annoyed with it if it happened, like, once, but it happens at least once per zone.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on August 09, 2017, 12:38:41 AM
Is fire still somewhat luck-based? Before pretty much all of the major abilities proc'd off of crit chance, so if you didn't have high amounts of crit and a ton of luck you couldn't effectively play that spec.

I have no experience with arcane, but fire is reliant on two crits in a row for instant pyro. And frost is reliant on procs for instant flurry, or ice lance crits, or building up those fingers of frost to let loose, so they're both kinda luck dependent, frost is just better for soloing because of slows and roots.
As far as zone aesthetic goes, I think Warlords is probably my overall favorite. Not only was there a ton of variety, but I think it has the most "desolate but beautiful" zone in the entire game. You probably didn't see it if you only played Alliance and didn't go for the exploration achievements. When you have a chance, swing by Frostfire Ridge (it's the first Horde questing area, but you can walk through there safely if you're on a PvE realm). I don't think I can adequately describe how much I enjoyed the look of that area.

I won't say draenor is my favorite set of zones (goes to TBC for me), but damn if I do enjoy goregrond, and spires of arak. It's a pitty I missed out on frostfire ridge, I did take a visit there to get a flight path or two, and I'd definitely have to put it in my top 10 zones, look wise. Look forward to doing that zone as horde whenever I go back to the hunter shaman or lock. Might be fun to do a little post on my top 10 zones in the game, which would omitt half of pandaria (since I didnt play it), but from the looks of it, I didn't miss much.

World quests are pretty much a cross of Diablo 3 bounties and Guild Wars 2 world quests. They're a pretty good way to kill some time, they aren't as tedious as older dailies (Mists' dailies sucked), and they aren't as mobile gamey as Warlord's "endgame." Still definitely a grind, but they're not bad.

Yeah as I completed my first group of quests belonging to a faction it just popped that I was doing bounties in world of warcraft. I like the system, but...I'd like it more if I could...fly...

I know you aren't crazy about your shaman, but I'd highly recommend using them to get Draenor flying.

After hitting 110, I needed a new goal, and now I HAVE TO GET DRAENOR FLYING. It'll drive me crazy if I don't. So I explored all zones, got to see more frostfire ridge which was cool...then getting 100 treasures...Now you recommend shaman, but I was doing it on my 102 warrior. Here me out, there's a lot of treasures that require a gimmick to get, or a glider in nagrand or whatever. Warrior has a little something called HEROIC LEAP, which cheats half of those gimmick treasures. With the help of the addons you linked, I went from 15-10 in a few hours in goregrond shadowmoon and nagrand. Still a pain in the ass, but I would have skipped at least 10+ of those treasures if I couldn't just jump to it. Also being that level, I still gain exp for doing all of this horseshit, so I may as well get some exp for my suffering, especially the tanaan jungle rep bullshit that will take the longest amount of time. Being level 102, level 100 enemies, exp for my troubles.

After I get to the "do dailies and shit to slowly finish draenor pathfinder" part, I'll get this warrior to 110, and then...I'll need a new goal. I hear demon hunter is a fuckin solo monster beast, which sounds super appealing for world quests and easier than my mage, so I might work on a demon hunter after the warrior, if I'm still playing by then. Starcraft Remaster comes out near the end of the month, and september brings snes classic if I can get my hands on it, and I HAVE TO PLAY VIRTUAL CONSOLE POKEMON SILVER, I lust for classic gen 2 on my 3ds. Might keep the wow sub for world quests and whatnot, but we'll see. Draenor lasted me 3 weeks from start to finish, but legion is a bit more interesting.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on August 09, 2017, 01:55:56 AM
Sounds like mages have roughly the same dynamic as last time I explored them. :) And yeah, arcane is about as proc-heavy as frost was, in my experience, though the DPS was significantly lower (hopefully that changed at least).

Yeah, doing a top 10 favorite zones list does sound like fun, actually! I might have to think about that a bit.

Frostfire was a nice little questing area. The biggest problem with it is that it's the first thing see when you play a Horde toon, so you naturally compare everything else to that. While I do rather like the design of most of the Warlords zones, most of them did fall pretty far short of that (though Spires of Arak comes the closest--the ambiance there is awesome).

My problem with Mists in particular is that most of the zones feel very samey. I kind of get what they were trying to do--start players off in a tranquil-looking forest, then showing the lands becoming more and more corrupted as they progress--but considering how many forests I'd explored getting to that point, all it does is make me remember how much I hated questing through Ashenvale, Feralas, Stranglethorn Vale, Terokkar Forest, Grizzly Hills, and oh god please make it stop please. For me, I always felt like the Dread Wastes was, by far, the strongest zone in Pandaria. It gave me a classic Shadowmoon Valley vibe in a lot of ways, and helping out the Klaxxi was pretty cool, too.

oshi, for some reason I got the impression that they removed heroic leap in legion (my warrior is still 85, lawl), so I figured you had about as much standard mobility (i.e. not including charges) as my DK, and I had a pretty miserable time even getting 25 treasures. Dismounted, I'd barely make some of the required jumps, and in some cases fall, and when I mounted I'd overshoot them. Ghost wolf seems like it'd be just about perfect...unless you already have heroic fucking leap. :P It felt like they were trying to ape the parkour challenges in Guild Wars 2 (which, might I add, are actually pretty fun) and failing miserably because WoW's engine is pretty terrible when it comes to movement/jump precision. It's no wonder they made the treasures in Legion much easier to get.

And hey, glad the addons helped out! I know there's no way in hell I'd be able to put up with that shit without them, haha.

Also, be very glad that you jumped into Draenor late. You know that thing where you do garrison missions, then wait for them to finish like you're playing a fucking mobile game? That was pretty much the entire endgame. Then they released a major content patch that added a dock. Such missions! Much content! WoW! They eventually added the Biff Tannan dailies, but I think most people were sick of it by that point. Warlords made me unsubscribe for the first time since BC. The story line was pretty damn good, IMO, but unless you raided (and there were only three raids, might I add! A drastic cut compared to other expansions) you literally had nothing to do but level alts.

Thank goodness they revered course hard with Legion. Blood DK annoyances aside, I've enjoyed Legion far more than the past several xpacs.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on August 09, 2017, 03:52:34 AM
Also, be very glad that you jumped into Draenor late.

Actually, I was early. I chewed up and spit out that expansion before they added anything to it. I played for roughly 3 weeks, and stopped. Got on, hit level 100, decided to get paladin through pandaria to get to draenor, got bored before I finished that...and didn't touch the game until a few weeks ago.

But I left well before they added tanaan jungle into the game, I wish that pathfinder bullshit was added when I played because instead of slogging through it now, I'd have it done already. 5 more assaults, then it's working on rep. However as fast as I consumed that expansion, I had fond memories of it. The garrison stuff (minus the mobile game bullshit) was really awesome, and I hope they do soething like that but...bigger in a future expansion. Like a garrison, or town, or base, that won't go obsolete after an expansion, say your mines get upgraded with new ore and whatnot. IM TOTALLY DOWN FOR SOMETHING LIKE THAT BLIZZARD, just let me pick any zone in the entire game to set up shop and give me a special hearth and we're good. WoW is a single player game for me now a days, and that's ok. New expansion, level a character or 3, eventually get bored, quit till the next expansion, or skip it and wait for the one after.

Quote
Grizzly Hills

While I am quite tired of forest zones, I would put that particular one at the top of the food chain. Like ashenvale, feralas, that elf zone in legion, the druid zone north of kalimdor, darkshore MAY AS WELL BE THE SAME ELF FOREST ZONE, but grizzly hills was a cool alpine redwood type of area, and

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/mpyInx0ldfo/hqdefault.jpg)

THIS RIVER, just did it for me. I cant quite recall, but it might be the first time in the game where a river doesn't feel static, and it actually looks like it's in motion.

Not to mention the music for the zone was top tier.  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWTSK5waNs8)

I really don't have anything against a forest, but damnit, give it some character, and I think they did that with Grizzly hills, as...most of the zones in lich king, minus boring tundra.

Speaking as much about zones, I do honestly feel they are the most important aspect of the entire game. I mean it's where you play the game, and the music, scenery, and questlines, not to mention those vanilla memories of things happening in places that just stand out. Old terran mill, crossroads raids, ashenvale/stonetallon mountains early contested zones pvp. Nostalgia feels every time.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on August 09, 2017, 04:47:20 AM
Oh, I misread your post (and now that I think about it, I think you showed some screenshots showing that you already had a 100). I thought those three weeks were part of your most recent resub. So yeah, you know what it was like. =)

Totally agreed on Pathfinder. I can honestly understand them keeping some sort of barrier to flying so that they didn't end up with another ridiculous Cataclysm situation (I mean, honestly, did anyone walk *anywhere* during cata?) but it's past content. It's time to tone that shit down. I think that all you should have to do now is finish all of the major storyline chapters for each zone on a single faction and get the exploration achievements. That rep stuff is literally pointless at this point.

I was actually pretty hyped for garrisons, though I wish they would have taken it a bit farther. I think it would have been pretty awesome if garrisons were larger but shared among all of your toons. I think that would have made the grind to build them up a bit more rewarding, and it would have been kind of neat to see your other player characters walking around when they were in the right level range. I dunno. I wish Blizzard would find some way of acknowledging alts in some sort of in-game fashion. Also, the way that garrisons were implemented made it so that altaholics could flood the market with ores and herbs, greatly reducing the value of gathering professions. I think anyone who thought about the implementation of that system for even half a second could have seen that coming.

And yeah, I do agree that the content itself (sans mobile game bullshit) was pretty stellar. I was admittedly very sour towards Warlords after "experiencing" the "amazing" "endgame" and subsequently axing my subscription. When I realized that Legion was good I decided to "suffer through Warlords" again to get some alts leveled up. It's simultaneously surprising and immensely sad how the endgame mechanics negatively colored my experiences of the expansion. So far, since Legion dropped, I leveled my priest and shaman through the Warlords quest line and have enjoyed the hell out of it (but especially Spires of Arak, because burdmen). If I would have been able to set my grievances aside, I'll bet I would have leveled half of my toons to 100. In some ways--especially with regards to silly tropes--the single player content of Warlords actually beats Legion, IMO.

Regarding Grizzly Hills, I think it might have more been that the Horde quests were largely unmemorable (haven't gotten through it on any Alliance toons yet--I think my highest blue toon is ~72?). It was certainly far less offensive and far prettier than the previous forests, and it doesn't have the horrible camera issues that occur in thicker forests. I think the only thing noteworthy that happens is that you sorta kick off the Drakuru quest chain, but most of that ends up happening in Zul'drak anyway. I think that might have been my main issue with it. When I finally manage to get through that content with my mage or pally (whom I rerolled at some point) I'll be sure to go through that zone again just to find out for sure.

I agree, I think the way that Blizzard handled the zone system is one of the most brilliant parts of WoW. A lot of other MMOs (SW:TOR in particular comes to mind) there are just a lot of zones that feel very samey. Forest zones aside (and even those try to have different moods), most of WoW's zones feel unique in some way. Even when computers and VRAM were a bit more limited, they tried to change things up by using color filters to set a particular mood (those are still in full force in Outland and Northrend). That, coupled with the slightly exaggerated look of the character models and the rich color saturation both manage to give the game a characteristic look as well as a visual style that's bold, refreshing (especially with so many "brown is real" games in the AAA space, especially at the time), and unforgettable.

I can't tell you how refreshing it was to see ArenaNet actually understand that concept and apply it to Guild Wars 2. I remember the original Guild Wars having that issue where the graphics were pretty but unmemorable. When I first played GW2 (speaking of which, I'm about due to play it again) I absolutely loved the aesthetic. Slightly exaggerated, high saturation, instantly memorable environments and characters. I can still navigate the first Asura questing area in my head.

It's almost like they understood the key ingredients that made WoW so successful, threw some of their own spices in there, mixed it real nice, and released a successful game. The others just took WoW's recipe, threw it on a copying machine, scribbled a few half-baked and impossible to balance design ideas on the copy, rescanned the copy, drew big tits on all of the female characters on the copy-of-a-copy, scanned that, then released the copy-of-a-copy-of-a-copy and wondered why nobody bought it.

Buuuuuuut I digress. A lot. I probably shouldn't be allowed to use computers at this hour.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on August 14, 2017, 05:42:14 PM
I REALLY want to level more alts, but I REALLY want flying unlocked, but it takes so much damn timeeeeeeee

They made leveling really easy, so I want to grind characters, but knowing I don't have flying in draenor or broken isles gnaws at the back of my mind.

I mean I AM enjoying the post 110 world quests and whatnot, and just got the warrior to 110...prot is still my main, now and forever until blizzard fucks it up. Too tanky, too mobile, too fun, and aoe tanking with warrior is no longer a handicap now. Demon Hunter aside, warrior most mobile class in the game? Don't know a whole lot about all of the classes but I know death knight is probably the least mobile, mage double blink is alright, paladin has a rush mount thing, but warrior 2 intercept + heroic leap? SONNNNNnn

I got full plate heirlooms fully upgraded (may have bought a wow token for that...) so I guess I'll be getting the paladin and death knight up in levels next.

I do intend on making "vlads top 10 zones in world of warcraft" post in the future, whenever I decide to buckle down and read up on all the zones I played and rank them.

In the meantime, I'll just use this thread to post my progress in the game. Ohh and a final note, I got a logitech g502 to replace my over 12 year old logitech mx518. Took a while to get used to, but it's pretty comfortable to use even if it doesn't look like it would be. Only gripe with the thing is the middle click takes some force, and I never was a fan of the middle mouse wheel side tilt feature, i end up doing the side click instead of what I want which is a middle click. Going to keep the mx518 around though, may have retired it, but I may want to use it later on.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on August 15, 2017, 12:46:01 AM
Ayup. I was on the other night (you were on, too! hiiiii~) working on my flying. Even going through Frostfire Ridge--which, from a treasure hunting perspective, was dead simple--was tedious as all hell. I parked my shaman in Biff's Pleasure Palace so that I can start that bit of fun next time I sign on. Gotta say, I'm definitely not crazy about one of the main criteria for flying (the daily assault quests) being random. Uggggh. Might see how far along I am with that on my DK, since I actually did some of those with him.

As far as mobility goes, I'd definitely agree with the warrior being second only to demon hunters. I have very fond memories of chain pulling enemies with the various charges. One of my favorites was pulling two distant groups by charging, hitting thunderclap, intervening to the party, then using intercept to rush to the second group. Looks like that's still sorta possible nowadays, but you'd have to substitute one of the enemy charges with heroic leap. I'd say warriors started becoming viable AoE tanks during the Cata era--I never had a problem holding threat on groups.

I think I'm going to do my top 10 WoW zones thing after I get a bit closer to finished with Draenor flying. I'd definitely like to do a flyover of all of the zones before I make my final judgment. In some cases, the last time I visited some of the classic zones was when I got the explorer achievement in, like 2009, and I don't think it's fair to go solely based on memory. I might even try to see if I can get some screenies of the pre-Cata vanilla zones to see if any of those are better/worse than the current versions.

Ooh, nice mouse! That one was on my list, but I ultimately went with the G600--Logitech's Naga-style MMO mouse. If its middle click is anything like the one on mine, it'll soften up fairly quickly.

I like it over the Naga because Logitech actually did some fucking ergonomic design on it rather than just slapping a numpad on the side of a slab of plastic. The Naga Epic that I used to have had a barely noticeable nub on the "5" key and a flat design, so it was hard to really tell where you were on it. Furthermore, the thing was so damn small that I couldn't use the bottom three buttons.

The G600 has prominent nubs on the 5 (G13) and 2 (G16) keys. Additionally, the top and bottom sections of the side buttons are curved to contour with your thumb, so you can very easily tell where you are on the mouse. There are also two buttons just below the scroll wheel. The scroll wheel also acts as a tilt, though unlike your G502, that acts--by default--as the browser back and forward buttons. It actually feels really intuitive, to the point where normal back/forward buttons feel odd to me now. Not sure if it's due to the differences in hardware design between the two or the difference in how we use the devices, but I have yet to accidentally tilt the wheel to the point where it responds. The tilt action on my mouse has a pretty decent click, solid enough to prevent accidental actuation but light enough that it doesn't feel awful to use.

With the VR rig, I've found myself using those side buttons more and more when it comes to games that use more traditional control schemes to prevent me from having to blindly flop around on the keyboard for commands (*cough cough* Elite: Dangerous *cough cough*). But that's a story for another thread (maybe).
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on August 21, 2017, 05:42:09 PM
I might start that top zones list(spoilers, there WILL be a broken isles area(not entire zone), care to guess which one?) after I acquire draenor AND broken isles flying on that list. It's eating up all of my sanity at the moment.

Draenor is straight up horseshit. From what I've seen you basically have to run around hunting rares and bosses all fucking day which is goddamn stupid. So I'm going to spend real money to get through that because medallion of the legion, a rare item, that goes for ~TEN THOUSAND GOLD A PIECE on my realm to get that done. I need about 7k rep to get to exalted on my closest draenor rep, which gives me an acheivement to unlock the trade depot level 3, which gives me a 20% bonus. So I'm thinking I'll need...~150,000 gold to get it done, buying stuff on the ah when I can. Going to hold off on the wow token until gamescom this wednesday. I hope the gold price for NA shoots up at least an additional 30-40k gold, current price as of this post is 150,000 gold, but since im spending irl money, and that price is constant (20 bucks), I may as well wait until the price is high, and gamescom news should shoot it up at least 10k hopefully more.

At this point my own time is worth a lot more to me than a few dollars. And I'm stupid and obsessed enough to do it.

As for broken isles pathfinder, for whatever reason while it IS more work than draenor, it feels less horseshit to me. Maybe because it's current content and not legacy content? OR MAYBE BECAUSE THE REP GRIND DOESNT REQUIRE ME TO HUNT DOWN RARE GODDAMN MOBS ALL DAY THAT I MAY OR MAY NOT TAG. Log in, see world quest (preferably blue, elite, or epic quests, ignore the rest unless its' for the embassy bonus, then log off. The "find group" button for quests makes these very quick and very easy, and since I'm a tank with over 4 million health, I just straight up fear nothing and don't die, I MIGHT end up with less than 100% health against a raid tier world boss, but that's rare.

(http://i.imgur.com/K51PRlr.png)

So with this, I can assume even my lowest faction which is the court right now, should hit revered well before I hit exalted with the nightfallen. Exalted is REQUIRED for the "good suramaritan" acheivement, which is REQUIRED for the pathfinder acheivement. Good suramaritan basically requires you to do...damn near every single quest in suramar, so 200+ quests, and one of the quests that starts a chain you need is straight up "get exalted with the nightfallen".

So by the looks of things, "if" I play ~1-2 hours a day, I should have broken isles pathfinder by....mid september? If I'm lucky. Draenor will happen whenever more marks are put up on the ah, and they are below 10 grand a pop, I'm already spending a fortune I don't have on these things, I'm going to at least be semi reasonable when purchasing them. Only positive I can come out of this, is anybody who isn't maining a human, playing the game wrong. World of Repcraft's best race is human for that juicy not insignificant 10% bonus rep.

So from neutral to revered is 21,000 rep. 10% of that is 2,100. Neutral to exalted is 42,000, so 10% of that is 4,200. You could argue, in the grand scheme, it's not a lot, but in my eyes, it's several days earlier you get to quit the rep grind bullshit, which is MASSIVE in my opinion. I don't know of a better racial bonus in this game to be honest, and they get a break out of stun cooldown which isn't bad for a tank as a nice bonus.

I feel like I've played too far into this to stop now, just going to ride it out. At least I've done everything else so maintaining the dailies shouldn't be too bad, especially with how convenient and easy they made world quests. Despite the rantey nature of this post, I am probably having the most fun playing this game since Lich King. I'd just like to get this pathfinder shenanagins over so I can either A play other games, or B level my alts with FLYING!
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on August 27, 2017, 12:39:27 AM
I used TSM sniper to snag a legendary belt for 70 gold which I flipped for 85,000

Yes, that is correct, I bought an item for 70 gold, that I sold, for EIGHTY FIVE...THOUSAND

Because of that, I could afford the medallions of the legion needed to take this screenshot

(http://i.imgur.com/M2tp4pC.jpg)

Just need broken isles pathfinder (and items that give you rep for broken isles factions are coming in the 7.3 patch....!) and I'll be golden!
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on August 30, 2017, 10:41:32 AM
Woo, congrats! Also, very nice choice of mount for the screenshot. The Netherwing drakes are still some of my favorite mounts in the game. <3

I really need to get back to my pathfinder stuff. I got a good jump on it, but unfortunately I kinda got distracted by Guild Wars 2. Oops.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on August 31, 2017, 12:34:16 AM
That post feels like forever ago, i've been BURNING THAT MIDNIGHT OIL

(http://i.imgur.com/I3I8ZYO.jpg)

I...I...can level alts now, I CAN PLAY OTHER GAMES NOW!

I'm...free...

As for the mount, I do like the old netherdrakes and that repgrind was the last big thing I did on my old vanilla horde main before switching over to alliance in lich king till current. I do want a green protodrake but I've been super unlucky with the eggs, and I'm too lazy to go to sholazar every 3 days to get another failure, so I might farm the blue one? Who know, black netherdrake is still a good one.

Now I'm thinking, what race to make my monk or rogue? human, night elf, draenei? ORC? ohh...dunno yet...should get the paladin to 110 or play the hunter, or...play the new street fighter characters? or tekken 7? or persona 5?

SO MUCH CHOICE
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on August 31, 2017, 10:03:00 AM
Double congrats!

I still need to do the Sholazar dailies. I got exalted with the Frenzyheart forever ago and was in the middle of working on my Oracles rep (pretty sure I'm revered with them right now) when Cataclysm came out. And yeah, it's annoying. It's too far away to easily get to, so I just sort of let it linger. Same thing with Ogri'la, really.

FORTUNATELY, I haven't been playing my DK. I think I might just park him there and finish it up (and after that I'm sure I'll get the protodrake egg sometime after hell freezes over).

As far as races go, I'd pick with the ones that make the least sense. Like, orcs are chunky and loud, so they'd obviously make great rogues. Tauren are meat mountains, so they're clearly the best choice when it comes to monking. If tauren rogues were playable (they exist--they're just so stealthy that you can't see them) that would be ideal. Alas...
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on September 02, 2017, 04:26:47 AM
Thinking female orc for the rogue, male tauren for druid, monk still undecided (either male orc, female human/nightelf/draenei)...doesn't much matter because i got plenty of characters to level before that point.

One thing I did discover that'll make my shaman leveling easier, I guess its undocumented, but like chest legs helm shoulders heirlooms mainstat will change based on spec. So agi mail heirloom shoulders will change to int, if I spec resto.

VERY AWESOME, queue as healer for autoqueue dungeon, then stay ele or something for solo questing.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on September 02, 2017, 04:47:28 AM
Yeah, they introduced dynamic primaries in Warlords. It obviously doesn't help you with secondary stat priorities, but it's a hell of a boon if you (heaven forbid) don't want to go through hell gathering multiple gear sets for each character. It also prevents those awkward "oh noes, I forgot to switch into my spirit gear now I'm oom lolol" moments from happening. <_<

Another convenience feature is that artifact weapons automatically change when you switch spec as long as they're in your bag. Pretty handy!
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on September 05, 2017, 04:36:15 PM
Can't see me complaining about that change for sure, still don't know what I'm going to spec the shaman. I don't like elemental, but maybe if I put the time in, i'd eventually get it. Kinda like mage, I didn't initially enjoy it, but I came out of legion thinking mostly positive on the class. However since I have plate heirlooms (and now leather) at 110, I feel like polishing off those classes first. Found that legion assaults are the best way to level from 100-110, so the demon hunter and paladin are just camped until an assault is up, log in, do assault missions, log out. Each assault as of now gives a guaranteed level, which is insane. So I guess my goal is to get characters to 100, do artifact quest, camp in dalaran for assaults.

Death Knight is the lowest plate I have so I've been working that bugger up. Tried blood for faster queues, but I'll be honest, at least for the level range I'm at, I hate blood. It doesn't feel fun at all, and death and decay cooldown feels way too long to get decent aoe threat going, not to mention the severely restrictive runes/runic power system the dk uses. I know for a fact that blood DK is a top tier tank in this game, but, that only applies for high end raiding, not for my casual enjoyment. Went back to frost, queue times aren't instant but not terrible, but I enjoy playing that spec a lot more, so that seems to be where it is for me. Best part is when a tank of a dungeon levels then "ohh i gotta go..." and leaves to do the next expansion content, I can change to blood, whip out the heirloom 2h, and be an emergency tank to finish the dungeon with.

For the races of my remaining classes, doing the math, I have 6 alliance, so...I could balance with 6 horde. 1 dwarf priest, 1 human warrior, 1 nightelf demon hunter, 3 draenei paladin death knight mage. Horde is looking 1 troll shaman 1 tauren druid, 1 undead hunter, 3 orc warlock, rogue, monk

Unless I change my mind on the rogue/monk, orc is probably my favorite race in the warcraft lore so if I have 3 draenei, I aughta have 3 orc. Only exception is if they had goblin monk, but they don't, so it aint happening. Maybe goblin rogue? I think monk sounds cooler for that race, but I digress, it's a personal cosmetic choice anyway.

(http://i.imgur.com/UcR6f3Z.jpg)

I think I'm going to keep leveling until I stop playing enough to warrant a monthly bill. But I figure if I can get say...casually 1 alt to 110 a month, it should be worthwhile. But This is coming in the mail tomorrow, so, maybe I'll get around to it. We'll see, I do know that game is hard as fuck, so not sure if I have the patience for something like that right now.

(http://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.GAl9pAe7fffS_yxTMLiENwDUEs&pid=15.1)
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on September 05, 2017, 05:17:16 PM
Definitely agree with regards to blood DKs. Blood has been an awful tank spec for LFD leveling at least since Cata made it to de facto tank spec. Back in Cata it took until around level 75 before they even became remotely viable, and every expansion seems to push that level up. Not sure if this is still the case, but blood boil used to do stupid amounts of damage in the BC level range, so I'd have to carefully manage my runes and use that and DnD to hold threat on groups. Things might have gotten slightly better now that blood boil doesn't require runes to use; I'm not really sure. Thankfully, things do eventually settle down. I'm not sure what level they do so at nowadays (especially considering how much blood changed in Legion) but it does eventually happen.

Regardless, for lower levels, blood isn't a great choice unless you're questing and have an aversion to seeing your health bar move. As far as group content is concerned, frost would have made a much better low-level tank spec, IMO.

I think I might have to jump on my priest and do some of those assaults before they nerf the XP gains. I wouldn't mind putting him on a fast track to 110. ;D
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on September 12, 2017, 12:51:09 AM
flying + heirlooms + legion assaults =

(http://i.imgur.com/p2qX8FU.png)

I expect to make more posts on more 110's because I'm MAD!
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on September 12, 2017, 09:27:29 AM
Illy knows what's up.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on September 14, 2017, 02:42:28 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/sanYsch.png)

Paladin anyone?

I do think my cutoff point will be 8 max level characters, I believe I can keep it sane long enough to get the remaining 4 up there. The hordies are almost out of pandaria hell, and draenor is a breeze to level through now a days, after that it's just checking this website (https://wow.gameinfo.io/invasions) to see when the next legion invasion is up to get those characters in legion free levels.

Then I'll have rogue monk druid hunter for future expansions to level up on, minus one with the free max level character with next expansion.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on September 18, 2017, 02:07:30 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/vUlCD1T.png)

the sheer speed at which one can level is addicting, I can't stop
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on September 18, 2017, 03:54:39 PM
Shit, man.

See, I don't know which method I actually prefer. On one hand, I really enjoyed the journey that I went through on my hunter, DK, and priest. When I played through my first toon in BC it almost felt magical--overwhelming at points, but that made the experience that much more enjoyable for me. It probably helped that I was in the midst of a huge slump IRL when I first started playing (and a lesser, but still significant, slump when I was pushing through Wrath), so having a sort of deep escapism was a good thing for me.

Of course, now that I'm a bit of a WoW vet the fast leveling is a blessing. I dunno. I guess I'm just wondering if I would have even stayed interested in the game long enough to get into raiding if I first started in the post-Cata era. The current game is still compelling, albeit for radically different reasons, so it's hard to say.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on September 19, 2017, 01:18:27 AM
I will say as someone who's best times with the game were in vanilla, the new leveling is 1000% better. ANY class you fancy can be had in a few weeks of casual play, or one or two marathon game sessions, with pre requisites. IE heirlooms, alts with money, pathfinder unlocked, legion assaults unlocked, a proper gameplan on how to efficiently get through the content and all that jazz. I see no drawbacks to it mainly for one reason I overheard on a youtube video. Lore Alt. If you want to go through the leveling process 1-110 and experience the zones, you can, don't use heirlooms, stay in each zone long enough to get what you want out of them and whatnot(which you'll have to because even without heirlooms you'll most likely overlevel them before you're done, I know this is a fact in outland where you can EASILY finish before even blades edge mountains, let alone netherstorm or shadowmoon). They balance the leveling curve for the current expansion now a days, and past expansions are like hyperspeed.

So damn near my entire current wow experience has been in this thread for the most part, and draenor went fast, and while legion went by fast too...I still went through most of the zones/quests. With my mage, I wasn't using heirlooms at all, and I got through most of 3 zones, and ~half way through the last leveling zone before I dinged 110. It did feel like a balanced well paced and most importantly to me, fair, leveling experience. Because as much as I'll suck vanillas dick all day, the leveling was pretty brutal (not at all compared to the mmos of the day because even hard wow was casual as fuck compared to everquest or something, but comparing it to what the game has become) and there was rarely enough quests in a zone or even series of zones for your level range, to get to the next zone, so you'd have to grind.

I had two 60's in vanilla for the ~90-100 days I had played it, game made you commit to a character. But on both of said characters, I specifically recall dinging them 60 the same way, last 2-3 levels ghosts in the frozen pond in winterspring, and I know I'm not alone in that. There was simply not enough content made to finish the leveling process by questing, which they went above and beyond in TBC. My memories of TBC leveling may be my most fond now that I think of it. It was like a midpoint between vanilla and now, it took a lot of effort to gain a level, but there was more than enough quests to get you there. I remember draining the quest's out of damn near every zone with only the latter part of shadowmoon not being required, and it was nice to see all of the content.

But I think I'm rambling now so this is a snapshot of my current status level wise. Everybody is in legion assault mode, and depending on interest I may just shelve the hunter until the next expansion. If I finish with 8 max level characters, not going to be disappointed. I honestly don't even care at all about monk/druid so I may just never bother playing either of them. Hunter seems like a fun easy class to just brute force to 110 casually, so I may use my next max level boost (from the next expansion) on a rogue...or if I'm crazy, a horde warrior so I can have my favorite class on the better faction(minus the bloodelves, if you want alliance then play goddamn alliance).

(https://i.imgur.com/QUjaSJl.jpg)
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on September 19, 2017, 10:57:39 AM
I think that might be why my perceptions with regards to leveling are colored a bit differently--I started in TBC soon after the Black Temple raid was released, so the vanilla content set was complete. Plus, I had the option of packing up and leaving at level 58, which made the final push to 60 absurdly easy, given the exp curve in TBC compared to vanilla. I've done a bit of reading and from what I understand some zones (like Silithus) had almost zero content, even general questing, for quite a while. I really think that if I started WoW during early to mid-vanilla (and I almost did!) I would have probably gotten disgusted around the mid-50s and quit.

And yeah, heirlooms became such a ho-hum thing that I completely forgot to factor those in. You would definitely see quite a lot more of the world without having those equipped.

a horde warrior so I can have my favorite class on the better faction

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DE5_75OUAAAIMBx.jpg:small)

\m/

(minus the bloodelves, if you want alliance then play goddamn alliance).

Shit man, even the Alliance didn't want them.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on October 03, 2017, 03:31:12 PM
This might be my final update thing till the next expansion anyway. I got what, 2.5 months? Out of this game since I started, literally the most I've played since Lich King. My best times may have been vanilla, but I had a lot of fun playing the current game/expansion.

(https://i.imgur.com/B3zSKOn.jpg)

That shaman has not hit the level cap since freaking BURNING CRUSADE, my original ass troll shaman since before 90% of the current playerbase even heard of this game when I made this screenshot (same character just had to do a name change because server transfer)

(http://i.imgur.com/M5bHl8E.jpg)

But I said I wanted 8 classes at the level cap so I did just that, and since I don't care about endgame raiding gear or pvp or any of that, I officially consider myself burned out. Could I do a few world quests and gear up a bit on various classes? Yeah, but if the next time I touch any of them is another expansion where gear is obsoleted immediately and presumably the legendary weapons are junked, whats the point of leveling the weapons and gearing up? I don't see the point in it.

With that, I think I'm too burned out to make an elaborate post detailing and explaining my top 10 zones, so I did it at work, and I think the list mostly works for me.

(https://i.imgur.com/6lb5KtN.jpg)

I'll shortly go over these. Keep in mind this is from the perspective of a horde player on a pvp server in vanilla.

-Vanilla durotar = the beginning world of warcraft to me, most nostalgic value
-vanilla barrens is just legendary and crossroads pvp was great
-some weird ones are stonetallon and desolace. stonetallon was the first contested zone i went to and thus, much pvp fun. desloace i took over stranglethorn and I have a lot of good memories ganking and getting ganked, not to mention maraudon. second entrance to the instance with the waterfall, as a shaman, cast water walking on an ally before they hit the water...DEAD!
-netherstorm is probably the coolest looking zone in the entire game so that gets points from me
-hellfire peninsula launch day, pvp server, both factions start very close to eachother, VERY VERY ENJOYABLE
-vashjerrrr is underwater, underwater is unique and awesome, more unique zones in the future pleasss
-zul'drak had a cool 3 tier system not really seen in any other zone, im a big fan of this
-suramar is in legion, and it sucks, and a lot of people hate it, why it it on the list? suramar city is like really interesting, it's one of the only? outdoor "cityscape" areas in the game? with the disguise mechanic it has this psuedo stealth system, and as mentioned earlier, unique attributes get points from me
-and finally badlands, none of these are in order, but it's not as much the zone as the town of kargath. alliance met up in what goldshire? in vanilla to go raiding in blackrock mountain. Horde had to take kargath in the badlands, so there was many a good time grouping up to zerg our 40 man group to that mountain and get some loot from the raids there.

I might play around a little bit more, but I think I'm pretty much done with what I wanted to do. I got my flying in legion/draenor, I got a ton of classes leveled up, got my original main leveled, seen most of the content I wanted to see, and I'm pretty full.

GG
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on November 04, 2017, 10:02:56 PM
World of Warcraft Classic (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcZyiYOzsSw)

This might be my final update thing till the next expansion anyway. I got what, 2.5 months? Out of this game since I started, literally the most I've played since Lich King. My best times may have been vanilla, but I had a lot of fun playing the current game/expansion.

They have been listening...I want this, I need this, my body is ready Thrall!
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Bobbias on November 04, 2017, 10:33:16 PM
WAT. I might actually care about this.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on November 06, 2017, 09:42:03 AM
World of Warcraft Classic (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcZyiYOzsSw)

Ayup. I doubt I'm going to get hugely invested in it, but above all else I just want to go through the old vanilla questing experience again. It felt way more meaningful to me than the current "rush to cap" experience.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on November 06, 2017, 01:48:35 PM
I've noticed in reading more into this vanilla stuff, there's a lot of people who either A never played vanilla and are only going off second hand knowledge, or B keep bringing up all the fucked up stuff in vanilla and HOW SO MUCH BETTER THE CURRENT GAME IS.

I'll admit, vanilla was far from perfect, and had a TONNNNN of fucked up stuff, spirit/str gear anyone? I mean it's technically true, "mechanically" speaking, the current game blows the former game out of the water, but it's still comparing apples to oranges...or a vidya related analogy street fighter compared to mortal kombat. They are both definately fighting games, but they are really very different from eachother. Vanilla, pull 2 mobs, you might actually die, Legion...with my prot warrior anyway, I literally cant die at all vs 20-30 normal enemies unless I pull like 6-8 ELITES, and even then I might survive.

It was just a very different styled game, and it's shortcomings made interacting with other players much more beneficial, I think the social aspects of the vanilla game are legit superior to the current game where any player is no different than an NPC.

Both games have their pros and cons, but there is one point I can bring up that in my mind should solidify that I can enjoy vanilla today. I played from damn near launch, December 13 2004(looked it up in my account history), and I played the ENTIRETY of vanilla up to the dark portal event (of which I have the tabard on my shaman if you scroll up) into burning crusade day 1. Since vanilla, I have not played the entirety of any expansion in the games history. I liked tbc, but I quit before lich king, so much so, I skipped lich king to play warhammer online (a fucking masterpiece of an MMO if I may add), and I enjoyed lich king when I got to it....then quit well well well before cata, tried cata..didn't even hit the level cap, SKIPPED panda expansion entirely, played draenor for 3 weeks enjoyed it and quit, and with Legion, I did enough blogging here for you to know my opinion on that...

I don't think I want to go hardcore raiding anymore, I straight up don't have the time or desire to do that anymore, but I do want to hit the level cap, do some dungeons, play OLD AV OMG OLD AV, and maybe experience the game with a class I always wanted to try in vanilla but never had the time to due to how time intensive leveling was. Though I am considering ORC RESTO SHAMAN pvp server at this time. totally different from troll resto shaman I know...

Anyway ending my tldr because I am way too excited, so much so...I might try a private server for a reality check, we shall see. But when 2018-2019-2020 whenever this rolls out comes about, I'm down to play with any of you's guys assuming we're all the same server, I do want horde pvp though.

*edit*

Adding a random screenshot of my warrior, when she was a wee lad in vanilla!

(http://oi66.tinypic.com/2vj8paq.jpg)
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on November 06, 2017, 04:21:59 PM
I started playing right after the Black Temple patch was released in BC, so while I don't have any experience with the somewhat wonkier talent trees in vanilla (second hand knowledge--please correct me if I'm wrong about that!) I have a rough idea of what the leveling progression and quest lines felt like. I know what hour long hearthstone timers feel like, I'm well aware of the TRUE costs of mounts, I have a rough idea of how valuable gold was before you would have pushed into Outland, and what 3 second mount times feel like. I also distinctly remember what Thousand Needles is supposed to look like. :P

I miss all of the sprawling quest chains. I miss the extensive, detailed lore text (which have largely been replaced by cutscenes). I mostly miss the days before the quest tracker straight-up told you where to go. I miss when each new zone felt like a goddamn adventure, not a means to progress through a linear quest line. I miss the days when I felt like more of an above average citizen, just trying to get by, and not a goddamn hero standing alongside a hundred other goddamn heroes (more on that in a couple paragraphs).

It might be that I'm just jaded from experience, but WoW doesn't feel like an immersive world to me anymore. I still enjoy the gameplay itself, sure, but it's radically different. Nowadays it's not a world to explore--it's yet another story to play. Professions are just a shadow of what they used to be. Group questing is almost pointless in most cases. Group quests are just laughable. From Warlords to Legion, regardless of what I play, I haven't come across a single one that I couldn't solo. I distinctly recall soloing some of the vanilla group quests on my hunter when I was leveling him and, holy shit, even though I was kiting like a motherfucker the whole time and close to panicking I felt like a goddamn badass when I finally took the elite mob down and earned my blue gear.

Nowadays, you get pandered to so much that it's almost silly. You get propped up as being this big badass hero who saved Azeroth countless times. Sure, you very well could be, but that makes the entire questing system feel pretty absurd. You're a badass hero who leads his own garrison and...takes orders from everyone you see, alongside the other dozens of badass, garrison leading heroes that you come across in the world. The game progression in the earlier titles--even up to Mists, really--felt so much more humble in comparison. Yeah, your toon is probably above average, but he/she is still little more than a wandering mercenary. A concerned citizen, if we're being generous. The game isn't trying to stroke your ego with every other quest.

And, as you've touched on, vlad, I also like that vulnerable feeling that I got before. Like you, I would literally pull entire areas with my blood DK (and, sometimes, even full packs on my shaman) and tear them down quickly. I miss back when I had to take on a camp of gnolls in a more methodical fashion. Like the elite quests above, I distinctly remember pulling a pack of five raptors in the Barrens on my hunter, surviving the experience (though my pet didn't. RIP), and literally crying out in delight because wow, that felt fucking great. Not anymore. Now you just smash a few buttons and, oh hey, everyone's dead.

So...yeah, I'm kind of excited for this. It'll also give me the opportunity to try playing a proper warlock again. :P

Haven't watched the BlizzCon footage of it yet, but did they say how they were going to handle the game client? I'm mostly wondering if it's going to literally be the 1.12.2 client, as-is, or if they're going to do what they did with Diablo II and modernize it to work better with modern computers and operating systems.

Hunting down some old UI addons is going to be fun. I'm thinking I should be okay with just an action bar mod and Omen (to help manage pet aggro), and those should be fairly easy to find in the WoWInterface/Curse archives.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on November 06, 2017, 05:42:38 PM
My first day off in the new place and instead of unpacking...I'm playing around with these (http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#h). What class to play what spec to play, probably have over a year to decide before this thing is playable.

I started playing right after the Black Temple patch was released in BC, so while I don't have any experience with the somewhat wonkier talent trees in vanilla (second hand knowledge--please correct me if I'm wrong about that!)

From what I remember, they were the exact same with a new tier of talents, same with lich king. You could argue (correctly) the new trees are more useful/functional. But damn, I would spend hours playing around with specs and what is optimal for how I want to play the game. While autorunning to my destination, or flying, or taking a zepplin, pop open that skill tree and ponder what to spend that point on in the next level. But you get 51 points to play with, can spend them in any of the 3 specs with minimum points required to advance in each tier. One point per level starting at level 10. Respeccing was expensive as all hell, but I recall the first one is free, so plan out a proper leveling spec, and then figure out what you wanted to do after the level cap for a proper spec for whatever you intended on doing be it pvp or pve. I just think the new trees are boring as hell with no consequence (kind of like the diablo 3 skill system, LETS GIVE THE PLAYER EVERYTHINGGGGGGGGGGGGG), even though it is technically "superior".

I miss all of the sprawling quest chains. I miss the extensive, detailed lore text (which have largely been replaced by cutscenes). I mostly miss the days before the quest tracker straight-up told you where to go. I miss when each new zone felt like a goddamn adventure, not a means to progress through a linear quest line. I miss the days when I felt like more of an above average citizen, just trying to get by, and not a goddamn hero standing alongside a hundred other goddamn heroes (more on that in a couple paragraphs).

Even though there was no tracker, thottbot was very popular in vanilla, and I think alakazam later in vanilla, with wowhead? being a thing in tbc. Those database websites have been around since not far from launch, so even with no instructions, people would frequently alt tab to find out where the hell to go.


I distinctly recall soloing some of the vanilla group quests on my hunter when I was leveling him and, holy shit, even though I was kiting like a motherfucker the whole time and close to panicking I felt like a goddamn badass when I finally took the elite mob down and earned my blue gear.

And, as you've touched on, vlad, I also like that vulnerable feeling that I got before. Like you, I would literally pull entire areas with my blood DK (and, sometimes, even full packs on my shaman) and tear them down quickly. I miss back when I had to take on a camp of gnolls in a more methodical fashion. Like the elite quests above, I distinctly remember pulling a pack of five raptors in the Barrens on my hunter, surviving the experience (though my pet didn't. RIP), and literally crying out in delight because wow, that felt fucking great. Not anymore. Now you just smash a few buttons and, oh hey, everyone's dead.

So...yeah, I'm kind of excited for this. It'll also give me the opportunity to try playing a proper warlock again. :P

I am sorry I am doing this, but you listed like the ONLY two classes that can do that shit in vanilla. Pet classes were GODS AMONG MEN TIER for soloing in vanilla (and even now, but the gap was way way WAY bigger back then), and the things you listed just aren't possible for much other classes. I don't recall soloing elites to be possible period for my shaman or warrior, not until burning crusade where it was the start of classes being able to solo elites (with big cooldowns at least). I even remember when new servers would pop up, it was usually a hunter that was a realm first 60, that class didn't need gear to get leveling done.


Haven't watched the BlizzCon footage of it yet, but did they say how they were going to handle the game client? I'm mostly wondering if it's going to literally be the 1.12.2 client, as-is, or if they're going to do what they did with Diablo II and modernize it to work better with modern computers and operating systems.

We don't know, and from what we are lead to believe, they don't yet know how they are going to handle it. Far as I am aware, this whole vanilla server thing was a relatively recent thing they decided to greenlight, so I'd be surprised if it even made release in 2018.


Hunting down some old UI addons is going to be fun. I'm thinking I should be okay with just an action bar mod and Omen (to help manage pet aggro), and those should be fairly easy to find in the WoWInterface/Curse archives.

I'll try getting by with the standard fare, although I hope whatever patch they use is late enough to have more actionbars, in december 2004 there was the 10 slots and that was all you got..., wasn't till a later patch where you got more action bars.

I really am considering rolling healer, but I'll really really really want to assemble a group of people to level with if I decide to do that. Leveling solo as a non dps (tanks had it even worse than healers from what I am told from the tanks of old) was a lot more challenging and time consuming than the dps counterparts. Considering shaman over priest for healing because I remember getting hard every time I would PURGE those damn priest shields into a dead squishy, every time, PURGE PURGE, such a broken ability and people only remember frostshock and windfury.

AND ANOTHER BLAST FROM THE PAST BECAUSE I CANT HELP IT

(http://oi67.tinypic.com/4tub2a.jpg)

Level 28, and instead of GOTTA LEVEL GOTTA LEVEL MUST HIT END GAME END GAME IS ALL THAT MATTERS, I am exploring horde territory with my alliance alt looking for lowbies dumb enough to flag pvp. It was like a different time, instead of zerging to the end to get to the "fun", the fun was just playing the game and exploring the world and what's around the corner. I remember being blown away in durotar the first time I seen an orc burrow OMG I REMEMBER THOSE FROM WARCRAFT 3!

*edit because I edit almost all my posts because...*

" A fun trick in PvP is to use your hearthstone, people think it is a heal and will try to kick/pummel/counterspell, hf."

I FORGOT ABOUT THIS, do people still do this? Looks the exact same as a heal as a shaman, they blow their interrupt, then you can heal without getting interrupted. I remember doing that kind of stuff all the time.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on November 07, 2017, 01:01:58 AM
From what I remember, they were the exact same with a new tier of talents, same with lich king. You could argue (correctly) the new trees are more useful/functional. But damn, I would spend hours playing around with specs and what is optimal for how I want to play the game.

Oh yes. I remember that well. It was immensely satisfying tweaking my DK's talent tree and kit between raid nights and watching my numbers climb up.

Honestly, I don't really have a preference either way as both systems scratch different itches of mine (except for the Cataclysm system--that was like the worst of both worlds). The system in Mists and newer is great since it gives you some useful moves immediately. The older system is great because it allows you to do some wacky ass shit if you know how to exploit it. I love it.

Maybe the wonky talent tree thing was something from beta. I remember hearing about it but I don't remember exactly what time period it was from.

I just think the new trees are boring as hell with no consequence (kind of like the diablo 3 skill system, LETS GIVE THE PLAYER EVERYTHINGGGGGGGGGGGGG), even though it is technically "superior".

I'm not too crazy about harsh consequences with that, especially considering how easy it is to screw up using the classic talent trees. That's actually one of the reasons I don't really care to play Path of Exile: if you screw up your talent tree too bad (and it contains 1325 fucking talents!) your only recourse is to reroll.

That being said, I think the original WoW respec system was in a pretty decent place. The main issue that I see with the penalties is that you run into that classic issue where you could have to pay out the ass if you want to change roles for raiding/dungeons. I always appreciated having the ability to dual-spec in Wrath and I remember being genuinely mystified when some select people (vanilla elitists, I imagine) were throwing a ton of shade at Blizzard for adding it!

Even though there was no tracker, thottbot was very popular in vanilla, and I think alakazam later in vanilla, with wowhead? being a thing in tbc. Those database websites have been around since not far from launch, so even with no instructions, people would frequently alt tab to find out where the hell to go.

Yep. Not to mention the various in-game addons and such. I forgot which one I used to use when I first started, haha.

Still, when I was starting it was kind of neat to just read the quest text and make your way over there. It usually at least gave you a decent idea of where to go, and there was almost always something interesting to see along the way.

I am sorry I am doing this, but you listed like the ONLY two classes that can do that shit in vanilla.

Oh, trust me. I'm well aware. ;D

I've leveled a priest and warrior through that content. I completely understand how it's "supposed" to be.

We don't know, and from what we are lead to believe, they don't yet know how they are going to handle it. Far as I am aware, this whole vanilla server thing was a relatively recent thing they decided to greenlight, so I'd be surprised if it even made release in 2018.

Yep. At this point I'm really curious how they're going to handle a bunch of the little nuances, like keeping cheaters out, dealing with the massive differences between the old and new operating systems (vanilla WoW was written during that innocent time before UAC, after all. Hell, it ran on Windows 98!), and stuff like that. I imagine there's going to be some serious retrofits to get everything working smoothly, but hopefully they do it in more of a StarCraft: Remastered way rather than a Darkening of Tristram way.

And, above all else, I hope we don't end up with something like that:

(http://i.imgur.com/yEVQY0J.png)

I'll try getting by with the standard fare, although I hope whatever patch they use is late enough to have more actionbars, in december 2004 there was the 10 slots and that was all you got..., wasn't till a later patch where you got more action bars.

I can't imagine them targeting anything less than 1.12.2, honestly. To me, it wouldn't make sense for them to give you anything less than the full experience of Classic, if nothing else because the world just wasn't complete beforehand (I hear Silithus is a great example of that).

I really am considering rolling healer, but I'll really really really want to assemble a group of people to level with if I decide to do that. Leveling solo as a non dps (tanks had it even worse than healers from what I am told from the tanks of old) was a lot more challenging and time consuming than the dps counterparts.

Yep. I leveled my priest from 1-80 as holy. That took a while. <_<

*edit because I edit almost all my posts because...*

How much would you hate me if I randomly disabled your edit privileges for funsies? ;)

" A fun trick in PvP is to use your hearthstone, people think it is a heal and will try to kick/pummel/counterspell, hf."

I FORGOT ABOUT THIS, do people still do this? Looks the exact same as a heal as a shaman, they blow their interrupt, then you can heal without getting interrupted. I remember doing that kind of stuff all the time.

I've never personally seen anyone do it (though I very rarely PvP), but that's a great idea! :o

I have something almost equally as fun. I used to PvP quite a bit on my DK during Cataclysm (I used to do Tol Barad pretty often), so I'd periodically have some fun with Dark Simulacrum (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=77606/dark-simulacrum). Basically, it throws a 12 second debuff on the target, and if they use a spell that costs mana during that time, the DK can use that spell once by activating DS again. Most people notice that and end up blowing a cheap or weak spell on it, which is something but typically isn't all that useful. One time, however, I hit a mage with it right as they cast mirror image.

You know what? It actually worked. Four hulking tauren, decked out in plate. One of them a harbinger of death and pestilence, the other three just doing mage things. It was pretty great.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on November 07, 2017, 07:09:32 PM
I'm not too crazy about harsh consequences with that, especially considering how easy it is to screw up using the classic talent trees. That's actually one of the reasons I don't really care to play Path of Exile: if you screw up your talent tree too bad (and it contains 1325 fucking talents!) your only recourse is to reroll.

While I do agree on the consequences are a bit too harsh, I think the "give everybody everything" removes a sense of class identity, and just makes it boring. I haven't even purchased necro in diablo 3 and I do not intend to because I am done with that game for nearly that reason. All classes feel nearly the same to me, which is what systems like that do.

That being said, I think the original WoW respec system was in a pretty decent place. The main issue that I see with the penalties is that you run into that classic issue where you could have to pay out the ass if you want to change roles for raiding/dungeons. I always appreciated having the ability to dual-spec in Wrath and I remember being genuinely mystified when some select people (vanilla elitists, I imagine) were throwing a ton of shade at Blizzard for adding it!

100% agree there. While I prefer vanilla, I ain't going to pretend it's this perfect un flawed masterpiece. Lich King had the perfect balance of making you work for a respec, yet allowing certain classes that are totally different pve than pvp (tanks for example) the option to actually have fun doing both.

Yep. At this point I'm really curious how they're going to handle a bunch of the little nuances, like keeping cheaters out, dealing with the massive differences between the old and new operating systems (vanilla WoW was written during that innocent time before UAC, after all. Hell, it ran on Windows 98!), and stuff like that. I imagine there's going to be some serious retrofits to get everything working smoothly, but hopefully they do it in more of a StarCraft: Remastered way rather than a Darkening of Tristram way.

I can't imagine them targeting anything less than 1.12.2, honestly. To me, it wouldn't make sense for them to give you anything less than the full experience of Classic, if nothing else because the world just wasn't complete beforehand (I hear Silithus is a great example of that).

Maybe I'm missing the point, but how would it be different than..."cough"

(https://i.imgur.com/vX3B5ca.jpg)

I COULD NOT RESIST I COULDNT...but it runs 1.12 and aside from some minor hitches (character looks a bit weird when using the turn buttons) it feels like I remember. Also see that shit, people, like other players?! Just leveling the content was challenging enough to warrant grouping up with randos, and so just me and this random guy cliqued up and got through the sen'jin stuff, you never see that in retail ever, ever. I'm shocked when I even run into another person while questing, rare enough as is, but on this server there's actually a lot of people out and about. But back to technical stuff, if some vigilantes can get this thing running on multiple private servers, how's a multi quadrillion dollar company going to have issues getting it up and running?

I needed to see if it was rose tinted glasses, or if it actually still holds up. Not sure how long I'll play, because with all private servers your character days are limited till blizzard pulls a C&D, so I don't want to get too attached, but it's pretty damn nice so far. But to stick with mage, or go to shaman, or shadow priest, or maybe warlock because summoning is so nice for dungeons? choices choicessss

Character named after this cartoon (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUwYgUt2ITw). Enjoy!
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on November 07, 2017, 11:25:51 PM
Maybe I'm missing the point, but how would it be different than..."cough"

FUNNY YOU POST THAT BECAUSE

(https://i.imgur.com/ns4015Qh.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/ns4015Q.jpg)
(Click for four-kaaaaaay!)

I'm seriously amazed at how well crafted 1.12.1 is. It natively supports 4K (that is, it doesn't artificially reduce the resolution list) and can even do windowed fullscreen! And it supports proper UI scaling! In 2006!

When I was referring to limitations and changes, however, I was more referring to UAC interfering with addons, config file writes, stuff like that. Basically the issues that WotLK had with Vista before Blizzard did some fiddling with the engine. Probably won't take them too much tweaking to get it completely compliant.

It would also be nice if they switched to saving screenshots to PNG or JPEG or something. Right now they're uncompressed Targas. Yeaaaaah, that screenshot was 31.6MB before I compressed it. Woo!

But whatever. MAN does it feel good to be back in classic Mulgore. ;D

I COULD NOT RESIST I COULDNT...but it runs 1.12 and aside from some minor hitches (character looks a bit weird when using the turn buttons) it feels like I remember.

Yeah, the animations were kinda janky, even moving into WotLK. Still not bad considering when they were made, though!

Also see that shit, people, like other players?! Just leveling the content was challenging enough to warrant grouping up with randos, and so just me and this random guy cliqued up and got through the sen'jin stuff, you never see that in retail ever, ever. I'm shocked when I even run into another person while questing, rare enough as is, but on this server there's actually a lot of people out and about.

To be fair, I did group with some people when Legion first came out. Then again, I think they only did it because I was a tank (blood DK no less) and could complete entire quests with a single pull and basically heal to full with a single click. :s

But back to technical stuff, if some vigilantes can get this thing running on multiple private servers, how's a multi quadrillion dollar company going to have issues getting it up and running?

Keep in mind that Blizzard needs to package it up in a way that idiots can install and manage. Also there's the technical issues that UAC imposes. Really, after seeing how well the renderer works (that's usually a sticking point with old games) I think the client should be good to go with a bit of cleanup.

The server side might be a bit rougher. From an administration side, 2004-2006 was a radically different time. I have a feeling they're going to need to do some pretty significant overhauls to get it into a state that is secure and functional on a modern server configuration. Naturally, there's also a bunch of logistical hurdles and bureaucracy. There's also a very good chance that the server software was written for 32-bit server environment, so they're likely going to port that to 64-bit and test the shit out of it.

One thing that I think is going to probably take some development effort is getting the code base for both the client side and server side in a state that they can apply patches and such. Even if the game isn't going to change they're still going to have to get themselves into a position where they can plug up security holes, stop spammers (which could potentially be a gigantic issue with official classic servers!), and evolve their anti-cheat technology accordingly.

From a purely backend perspective, there's a lot that they're going to have to do to make it pass muster. Above all else, they have to ensure that the old codebase (which is more than likely a security minefield at this point) won't allow people to break in and tamper with other systems in the same network.

I needed to see if it was rose tinted glasses, or if it actually still holds up. Not sure how long I'll play, because with all private servers your character days are limited till blizzard pulls a C&D, so I don't want to get too attached, but it's pretty damn nice so far. But to stick with mage, or go to shaman, or shadow priest, or maybe warlock because summoning is so nice for dungeons? choices choicessss

I'm just rolling solo on a home-compiled MaNGOS server. I was pretty happy with the solo experience. Weirdly enough, it does support player bots. Not sure how well those work!

Character named after this cartoon (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUwYgUt2ITw). Enjoy!

I named mine after my first toon. Seemed appropriate. :)
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on November 08, 2017, 10:53:06 PM
So basically it's a lot of under the hood stuff to get that mammer jammer working on their current systems that Joe orc won't even really appreciate.

But I'm on elysium via lightshope (dot) org, I think its the most popular vanilla server going? Or at least the one I've heard the most about. Going through character crisis at the moment, which isn't much of a crisis as much of a convincing myself not to play shaman.

I think current legion shaman is crap, but vanilla shaman had buttloads of utility which made playing support a blast, had a damn totem for every situation. The conflict is my endgame goal isn't raiding (aint got time for that), I just want to beat up kids in battlegrounds/world pvp. In vanilla, I had two 60's, my main shaman, my alt warrior, so it immediately kinda crosses both of those off my "first character to 60" list because I want something at least new to me. Druid I never liked, and they are like the worst class in vanilla so it makes it even easier not to play. Hunter/Rogue, nope nope. Paladin IS THE PERFECT CLASS A DURABLE AMAZING HEALER IN PVP...alliance, nope. Leaves mage, lock, priest...


It's a private server so the class choice is temporary anyway, sticking with mage since I can play frost pve AND pvp, they're good at both, I like them(my first 110 in legion if that says anything), Trolls are cool, portals in vanilla are more convienient than any other expansion due to how much more limited transportation is, free food/water, a desired dps class (something rogues could only dream of), seems like a solid pick to me.

Come official release I'm totes doing an orc resto shaman, no doubt about it.

If any of y'all have an itch to give the game a shot, elysium horde is where I'll be. Can't say I'll be dumping too much time into leveling though, kind of want to take it low and slow. Not in a rush to level something I'm going to lose, rather enjoy the ride till official stuff is available.

Ohh and I do notice you playing a hunter there sir. I will say, in my opinion, 1-10 experience before you get your pet is the most fun 1-10 leveling a character in vanilla. I have done 1-10 with hunters in every starting area for both factions, no joke...something about kiting the fuck out of everything or die that makes for engaging gameplay.

Side note, not sure if mentioning the server by name is kosher around here, or even if it is a taboo thing to talk about anymore? So I can edit the name out if need be.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on November 09, 2017, 01:55:59 AM
Yeah, that's what I think is going to take the most development effort. Server emulators like MaNGOS have the advantage of having been developed from a clean start without having to learn the painful growing pains that Blizzard had to go through. I'm sure vanilla was no picnic, especially as early as you were playing, but Wrath wasn't fun simply because that's when they hit their peak subscriber count. There was a period of time where dungeons and raids were pretty much unplayable simply because the servers were so unbelievably full that they couldn't spawn anymore instances.

I also distinctly recall them having to restart the world servers for some emergency maintenance, then when they came back up there were NO NPCS IN THE WORLD. Literally none. It was like that for maybe 10 minutes (we were all just bullshitting in trade chat) before they corrected that. Good times.

But yeah, even overlooking the fun they're going to have beefing up the security of the old servers, they're also going to have to make sure that it can handle loads without falling over. That didn't really start happening until Cataclysm, and it got to the point where Warlords was able to withstand a massive, sustained DDoS attack for a surprising amount of time (dem ping times, though).

Elysium apparently spawned from the remains of Nostralius, so that probably has a lot to do with its level of kickassery. I might end up signing up at some point. While I do enjoy the solo leveling experience, it's reaaaaally hard to make bank without a population to trade with.

Yep, I decided to basically roll my first character again (I think I even have the same appearance as before) and yeah, it's definitely a nice throwback! Bristleback Ravine is still just as much of a bitch as ever. It feels weird having to actually play cautiously in the newbie area, but hey, that's classic WoW.

I was thinking of sticking with a hunter when official classic hits, though now I'm considering a mage for all of the reasons you mentioned (not to mention being a fantastic way to build up ye olde gold reserves, even with the cost of reagents). Hmm...

And yeah, mentioning the server by name should be fine. The illegal content rule applies more to direct facilitation of piracy, like linking to a torrent, attaching infringing material to posts, etc.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on November 09, 2017, 07:24:39 PM
Yeah, that's what I think is going to take the most development effort. Server emulators like MaNGOS have the advantage of having been developed from a clean start without having to learn the painful growing pains that Blizzard had to go through. I'm sure vanilla was no picnic, especially as early as you were playing, but Wrath wasn't fun simply because that's when they hit their peak subscriber count. There was a period of time where dungeons and raids were pretty much unplayable simply because the servers were so unbelievably full that they couldn't spawn anymore instances.

I also distinctly recall them having to restart the world servers for some emergency maintenance, then when they came back up there were NO NPCS IN THE WORLD. Literally none. It was like that for maybe 10 minutes (we were all just bullshitting in trade chat) before they corrected that. Good times.

Im not (yet) a technically savvy person, but, I see private server from a random third party success! Official server from a multi billion dollar company?...NO PROBLEM THEY GOT THE MONEY TO THROW AT ANY PROBLEM THAT EXISTS!

Am I wrong? Or are you just taking the perspective of the grunts who actually have to impliment such changes. Which is fine, just beyond my current level of understanding. I know I do take for granted how smooth everything is in the current game, back in vanilla servers went down a lot, crashes, long queue times, server transfers and all that shenanigans. And I started 3 or so weeks after launch, it was rough for at least a year after that.

Elysium apparently spawned from the remains of Nostralius, so that probably has a lot to do with its level of kickassery. I might end up signing up at some point. While I do enjoy the solo leveling experience, it's reaaaaally hard to make bank without a population to trade with.

I mean you don't need people to get the mechanical feel of how the game used to be, but I think the lack of creature comforts and convienience is what drives the community in that game. You need to be proactive and socialize with people to get stuff done in that game, just not the case in the current game. I needed to do a RAID of all things in the process of getting flying in legion...queue tank, 5 minutes later, raid, kill like 4 things, done. Like, what? Didn't talk to a single human being. I'm not even level 10 on my mage yet and I talked to more people than I did leveling from 100-110 in legion, 8 times.


I was thinking of sticking with a hunter when official classic hits, though now I'm considering a mage for all of the reasons you mentioned (not to mention being a fantastic way to build up ye olde gold reserves, even with the cost of reagents). Hmm...

This is my mentality. Come official release, my main, is a resto shaman, it is my favorite class in that version of the game, however, soloing and grinding money as a resto shaman SUCKED. I did it once, and that was enough. The game isn't balanced, nobody should pretend it is balanced. Mage seems like a great compromise class, although I'm not sure they are the "best" at farming gold at 60. Warlock gets a free mount, which that gold could go to an alt or something, so it's nothing to sneeze at, and rogues I think can farm brd with pickpocketing and whatnot. Going to need to do more homework before I finalize it, mage seems to be a great choice so far though.

And yeah, mentioning the server by name should be fine. The illegal content rule applies more to direct facilitation of piracy, like linking to a torrent, attaching infringing material to posts, etc.

Muy bueno.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on November 10, 2017, 09:11:38 AM
Im not (yet) a technically savvy person, but, I see private server from a random third party success! Official server from a multi billion dollar company?...NO PROBLEM THEY GOT THE MONEY TO THROW AT ANY PROBLEM THAT EXISTS!

Am I wrong? Or are you just taking the perspective of the grunts who actually have to impliment such changes.

I'm trying to look at it from all angles. While I don't have the number of roadblocks at my company that Blizzard would, I certainly do run into a few of them.

The directors of the project have to satisfy the people in finance (I doubt this is going to be free--hopefully they do a tiered pricing scheme, like no additional cost if you already have an active subscription to retail and, say, $5/month if you're not). If they aren't planning to charge for it, they'd have to make that determination as to whether the goodwill they get from it will exceed the value of the staff needed to run it. They'd need to factor everything in and see if they'd be able to break even. I suspect that's one of the main reasons they want to talk to the people who run vanilla servers: it's a great use study.

When it comes to the programming team, in the interests of both purity and time savings they're probably not going to rewrite the code (rewriting would likely put it overbudget verrrrry quickly) but they're still going to have to do a bunch of work on it to raise the security and reliability of the software while preserving the gameplay. I doubt anyone's going to complain if they prevent cheats and exploits from working, and I don't think anyone has fond memories of the mandatory maintenance windows. :)

After the code changes/modernization is done, they're going to have to run it through their compliance teams to ensure that the server software itself can't be exploited, as that can lead to some pretty sticky issues (like people getting access to the server that the code is running on). While that's happening, their QA team would be trying their damnedest to break the game. Since they're likely going to be modernizing the client as well (if nothing else to make sure it's using newer graphical APIs so that they don't have to worry if Microsoft winds up dropping DirectX 9 support or something like that), that's going to have to go through thorough testing to make sure that nothing breaks as a result of those changes.

The random third-parties that build this software independently, on the other hand, may not have a bunch of money to throw at the problem, but they don't have any overhead, either. They don't have stringent testing policies in place or a financial department breathing down their necks. In their case, it boils down to whether or not they know enough about the game and its client/server protocol to make it happen.

I needed to do a RAID of all things in the process of getting flying in legion...queue tank, 5 minutes later, raid, kill like 4 things, done. Like, what? Didn't talk to a single human being. I'm not even level 10 on my mage yet and I talked to more people than I did leveling from 100-110 in legion, 8 times.

LFR is one of the things that kill modern WoW for me. I appreciate the fact that it exists to a degree. I mean, the aforementioned finance department wants to make sure that people who don't have time to do proper raids will be able to experience the storyline and keep giving them money.

Buuuuuut, the problem that I have with LFR is that it is more mindless than normal dungeons, and the rewards are simply too damn good. Why bother doing normal raids when LFR gear rewards are a baby step down from that? What's worse is that the ease of getting decent gear in LFR had a rippling effect through normal raiding as well. My friends and I tried like hell to make normal raiding work in Legion, but it just straight up wasn't happening. The people who queue for normal raids are, by and large, complete idiots. People will happily join raiding guilds with no intention to bother showing up for raids. It's ridiculous.

Oh yeah, these modern day snowflakes also get super pissy if you call them out on their bullshit. If they think that me telling them (forcefully, for the fifth time) not to drag displacing effects to me (the main tank) while holding threat on a stationary enemy is "mean," I don't even know what to say. So yeah, a dumbass demon hunter causing our top warrior DPS to get killed (and wasting a battle rez in the process) is apparently acceptable behavior by current generation players. Brilliant.

Before LFR, I don't recall ever having problems like that. By and large, people knew what was expected of them. They knew that they weren't getting a carry. Standards were higher. Even during Dragon Soul people had the courtesy to not bring LFR bullshit into normal raids. That all started coming crashing down in Mists when Blizzard made LFR more "accessible" without decreasing the awarded gear level appropriately. You actually had to pay attention in DS LFR. In Mists and beyond? Not so much.

Come official release, my main, is a resto shaman, it is my favorite class in that version of the game, however, soloing and grinding money as a resto shaman SUCKED. I did it once, and that was enough.

Heh, yeah, I did that with my priest. I leveled him as holy from 1-80 (1-30ish during BC, the rest during WotLK). I can say that warriors loved grouping with me, though.

From what I remember, the only healers that weren't a complete bear to solo with were discipline priests, and that still was far from ideal.

The game isn't balanced, nobody should pretend it is balanced.

Exactly.

I think a large part of why the game is so different nowadays is that sometime around Cataclysm, Blizzard went from focusing on group balance to emphasizing individual class balance. For an MMO, that sort of thinking is a mistake. Raids nowadays have become more about dividing up a set of increasingly bizarre mechanics than actually knowing how to actually play your damn class. Of course, it's really telling of the modern WoW community when people can't even handle instructions like "go over there when you have X debuff, then walk back when it expires" without fucking it up.

Mage seems like a great compromise class, although I'm not sure they are the "best" at farming gold at 60. Warlock gets a free mount, which that gold could go to an alt or something, so it's nothing to sneeze at, and rogues I think can farm brd with pickpocketing and whatnot. Going to need to do more homework before I finalize it, mage seems to be a great choice so far though.

I'm leaning towards either mage or hunter at this point, favoring the latter just due to nostalgia and experience. We'll see! I'm going to fiddle around with the different classes on my server and determine what I want to do based on that.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on November 12, 2017, 01:52:27 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Ba0S7a2l.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/Ba0S7a2.jpg)
(click to enlarge)

Breaking out of End Time is fun.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on November 12, 2017, 08:16:34 PM
I know money is always a factor, but I'm not so sure making tons of money off WoW Classic is what they're going for. They want to cripple private servers, because...the legal team hates them? But I really do think that this project isn't blizzard suddenly giving a shit about a niche group of fans, they just want those people who are playing free WoW on private servers to be paying customers. That's my tin foil hat assumption anyway.

But besides technical challenges, I think the biggest challenge is how to implement the game? I don't think they can pick a solution that can please everybody.

I would personally would like static 1.12.1, nothing gated, and NOTHING ELSE. NO FIXES NO "ohh we're transferring classic to "classic tbc"" JUST STATIC 1.12.1 PERIOD.

I don't want to play vanilla and 12 months later no longer have that option because we've moved on to tbc. I do love tbc, don't take this the wrong way, but if I am on a server to play vanilla, I ONLY WANT THAT, if they want to release a separate server for tbc they can do so, but don't delete my vanilla character in the process.

But I'm not one of those nutters who also want to ban addons and stuff, they claim it ruins the vanilla experience...except addons and thottbot were day 1? Even leveling addons and whatnot were fairly common in that era, so I have no problems with it and use a few myself on elysium.

And don't get me on those people who want to see all sorts of changes to make the game legion "lite". Just no, they have the current game for that experience. I listened to a podcast and these people though "maybe instead of drinking once every 1-3 mobs, it was every 10-15 mobs" like...no. That's disgusting, no. Sure it sounds nice, but, the current game has an experience like that. Although...i may have drank...10 times IN TOTAL on my mage from..91-110...no joke, infinite mana is in the current game for some reason and nobody mentions anything about it

Buuuuuut, the problem that I have with LFR is that it is more mindless than normal dungeons, and the rewards are simply too damn good. Why bother doing normal raids when LFR gear rewards are a baby step down from that? What's worse is that the ease of getting decent gear in LFR had a rippling effect through normal raiding as well. My friends and I tried like hell to make normal raiding work in Legion, but it just straight up wasn't happening. The people who queue for normal raids are, by and large, complete idiots. People will happily join raiding guilds with no intention to bother showing up for raids. It's ridiculous.

Even without LFR you don't even need to raid to get solid gear. My prot warrior, FULL GODDAMN EPICS(and one legendary) 884 gear level (I have done 0 argus content, so if I did i'd be like 15 higher), solo only content. wut?! There's no effort, and with no effort, I don't give a damn about my gear. It's pointless and meaningless, and I don't care. I care more about a dungeon blue in vanilla in my leveling stage than any "epic" item I get in legion or draenor for that matter. It's not fun when it's not earned.

Before LFR, I don't recall ever having problems like that. By and large, people knew what was expected of them. They knew that they weren't getting a carry. Standards were higher. Even during Dragon Soul people had the courtesy to not bring LFR bullshit into normal raids. That all started coming crashing down in Mists when Blizzard made LFR more "accessible" without decreasing the awarded gear level appropriately. You actually had to pay attention in DS LFR. In Mists and beyond? Not so much.

In vanilla and even past expansions you needed to learn your damn class. I have completed heroics, first try, in legion, literally MASHING RANDOM BUTTONS TANKING. I don't even have words for that. The game doesn't force me to play optimally so I just don't, and I even get rewarded for it.

I'm leaning towards either mage or hunter at this point, favoring the latter just due to nostalgia and experience. We'll see! I'm going to fiddle around with the different classes on my server and determine what I want to do based on that.

Hunter is certainly not a bad option, it's not like you're leveling a slow class like paladin shaman or healer or something. I'm focusing down on definitely making mage the main (aoe farming can't be beaten for dat gold). However, I want a resto shaman, so I'll have the shaman created at the same time and camp him at an inn, and grind through that rest xp every 10 days or so to make for a more efficient leveling process while focusing on the mage. Shadow priest sounds really fun in pvp as well...so...3 characters? Who knows, but mage/sham is likely unless I want to change the sham into priest since I experienced end game with shaman in vanilla already.

For the screenie you posted, I'm not sure I know what that is. If it's anything cata/panda, my playtime was at an alltime low durring those expansions (one level under the cap in cata, fuckin skipped panda expansion till I was forced to level through it to get to draenor)
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on November 13, 2017, 01:00:36 AM
I know money is always a factor, but I'm not so sure making tons of money off WoW Classic is what they're going for. They want to cripple private servers, because...the legal team hates them? But I really do think that this project isn't blizzard suddenly giving a shit about a niche group of fans, they just want those people who are playing free WoW on private servers to be paying customers. That's my tin foil hat assumption anyway.

Honestly, I think that the people on the mid- to lower-levels of the company do genuinely care about what the players want. The problem in almost every case is convincing the higher ups that things like that are a good idea (and that they make "financial sense" and that sort of thing). I sincerely believe that if it were up to upper management, they'd just stick with sending C&Ds out to server operators as they've done in the past. Hell, it'd be a lot cheaper for one. They have lawyers on retainer for reasons like that. And, honestly, who's going to fight back? A person who's running a private server isn't going to have the money to fight against Activision-Blizzard in a court battle--they're just going to shut it down and post a sad message to their site's front page. It's a grey area anyway, and ActiBlizz is counting on people not being able to afford to set a precedent.

No, in this case they're actively investing in it. They're definitely spending more cash than they would by slinging C&Ds all over the place. I'm sure part of the reason it's happening does involve getting the people who dislike modern WoW back under their umbrella, but I think there's more to it than typical corporate bullshit in this case.

But besides technical challenges, I think the biggest challenge is how to implement the game? I don't think they can pick a solution that can please everybody.

I would personally would like static 1.12.1, nothing gated, and NOTHING ELSE. NO FIXES NO "ohh we're transferring classic to "classic tbc"" JUST STATIC 1.12.1 PERIOD.

I don't want to play vanilla and 12 months later no longer have that option because we've moved on to tbc. I do love tbc, don't take this the wrong way, but if I am on a server to play vanilla, I ONLY WANT THAT, if they want to release a separate server for tbc they can do so, but don't delete my vanilla character in the process.

I'm also in the camp that hopes that Blizzard keeps it a truly vanilla experience. If they push into BC, I doubt anyone's going to be wandering around actually doing things in Azeroth. When I started playing it really seemed as though most of the people stayed in Outland, and that was with a high enough population to adequately support both lands. When WoW Classic drops I doubt we're going to see numbers get anywhere near as high as they were back in its prime, so keeping the population at a sustainable level is going to be challenging enough.

But I'm not one of those nutters who also want to ban addons and stuff, they claim it ruins the vanilla experience...except addons and thottbot were day 1? Even leveling addons and whatnot were fairly common in that era, so I have no problems with it and use a few myself on elysium.

It definitely goes beyond leveling addons. The main problem is that the addon API in Vanilla had so few restrictions that people were able to write addons to play the game for them. Not sure how I feel about that particular point either way.

Obviously if the minimal restrictions cause security issues to crop up, that should most certainly be addressed. Despite everything, though, I don't think addons had any sort of filesystem access, so that'll probably be fine.

And don't get me on those people who want to see all sorts of changes to make the game legion "lite". Just no, they have the current game for that experience. I listened to a podcast and these people though "maybe instead of drinking once every 1-3 mobs, it was every 10-15 mobs" like...no. That's disgusting, no. Sure it sounds nice, but, the current game has an experience like that.

Yet another example of people thinking without speaking. People like that don't seem to realize that when they suggest "minor" changes like that it would require the game to be significantly rebalanced. Blizzard doesn't have a slider that controls how often you need to bloody drink. The only way to control that is to tweak 1) enemy damage, 2) the size of the player's health pool, and/or 3) the player's health regeneration rate. Any change to any of those would drastically change the dynamic of the game.

And yeah, I know I'm preaching to the choir...

Although...i may have drank...10 times IN TOTAL on my mage from..91-110...no joke, infinite mana is in the current game for some reason and nobody mentions anything about it

Yep. I leveled my priest from 90-102 without drinking once. I don't bother carrying food on my DK because hitting death strike once or twice pops me to full health.

Even without LFR you don't even need to raid to get solid gear. My prot warrior, FULL GODDAMN EPICS(and one legendary) 884 gear level (I have done 0 argus content, so if I did i'd be like 15 higher), solo only content. wut?! There's no effort, and with no effort, I don't give a damn about my gear. It's pointless and meaningless, and I don't care. I care more about a dungeon blue in vanilla in my leveling stage than any "epic" item I get in legion or draenor for that matter. It's not fun when it's not earned.

It's funny in hindsight how big of a deal people made during WotLK about welfare epics when you actually had to regularly do dungeons and raids in order to get them. You were just able to get some of your tier pieces from a shopkeeper using tokens/emblems instead of waiting for them to drop (basically an expanded version of BC's raid loot system).

And yeah, "epics" have been pretty much meaningless for a long time now. I'd really like to see dungeons max out at rares again. I'm fine with epics dropping from dungeons if it's truly a rare event, but the rate that you get those sorts of items is just absurd.

In vanilla and even past expansions you needed to learn your damn class. I have completed heroics, first try, in legion, literally MASHING RANDOM BUTTONS TANKING. I don't even have words for that. The game doesn't force me to play optimally so I just don't, and I even get rewarded for it.

The only time you really have to learn your class now is when you're raiding, and even then the only time you need to learn to play optimally is if you're tanking or healing. The only way people notice DPS fucking up is if they do something monumentally stupid (like drag a nasty debuff to the tanks) or if literally everyone is sitting around with their thumbs up their asses.

Hunter is certainly not a bad option, it's not like you're leveling a slow class like paladin shaman or healer or something.

If I did decide to level a healer for some reason, I'd probably ride on rested exp (like what you're doing with your resto shaman) and I'd probably wind up leveling in a DPS spec and spec swapping when I'm at cap. I've done my fair share of holy nova and smite DPS already. :P

Shadow priest sounds really fun in pvp as well...so...3 characters?

I had a lot of fun healing in PvP as a priest, at least during Wrath. YMMV for Vanilla. I generally ran disc for PvP and holy for dungeons/raids.

For the screenie you posted, I'm not sure I know what that is. If it's anything cata/panda, my playtime was at an alltime low durring those expansions (one level under the cap in cata, fuckin skipped panda expansion till I was forced to level through it to get to draenor)

It's from End Time, one of the heroic-only endgame dungeons in Cataclysm. The dungeon content proper takes place in the dragonshrines in Dragonblight (in the apocalyptic future where everything is super dead). However, there's a way that you can escape the confines and explore the instanced version of the ruined Dragonblight by jumping up the wall a certain way in the bronze dragonshrine (which, luckily, is one of the areas that's guaranteed to be accessible). That's the only way to actually get to the foot of Wyrmrest Temple.

There's also a nearly-complete representation of Crystalsong Forest in there as well, presumably so that Dalaran would show up.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on April 29, 2018, 06:35:36 PM
Bump?

Uhh...help?

I had cravings for vanilla, and I impulse spent $15 on a month of retail...except I realize I HAVE NOTHING TO DO ON RETAIL!

I have 4 classes left to level, and I kinda want to wait till BFA for the new allied races for some of those, so...ahhhhhhh

Slutmog hunting for the demon hunter? Game the auction house for $$$? Try and get any goddamn protodrake? Gear is all but meaningless in retail to me, it feels like diablo 3 now where it's all erased with the next update, and I'm not raiding in retail at all.

Maybe I'll try gearing up my shaman as resto and attempt some battlegrounds?

I'm out of ideas, I should just accept I wasted money and try more elysium. I've yet to decide on my vanilla main, it's mage, shaman, paladin, shadow priest. TOO HARD TO DECIDE
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on April 29, 2018, 09:48:50 PM
I'm kind of in the same boat. I didn't renew my subscription, but I've been kind of getting the urge to play something like WoW but I really don't think retail is going to scratch the itch.

Mog hunting would be fun if you're in that sort of mood. I don't see the point in gaming the AH. Gold has become almost meaningless aside from getting the overpriced mounts. PvP's almost always relevant.

I'd just cut your losses and jump on Elysium. Vanilla is far more interesting from a gameplay and lore perspective, IMO. *shrug*
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on May 01, 2018, 09:40:16 PM
Having 8 classes at max level, the other 4 I could care less about, so I don't even have motivation to level.

I was excited about the new trolls being able to be paladins...then that idea was shot down. Orc priests though...but I already have a dwarf.

Idk, I will play battle for azeroth, and probably enjoy it, but this game doesn't feel like it has the legs it once had. I just can't think of anything to do. I should try pvp or something, but there's like pvp tallents and stuff now? I don't even want to dive into that malarkey. I aint even shitting on legion, its a totally different game now, and I had a lot of fun playing through the content, but It's all dried up and I remember now why I let my sub expire.

Still going back and fourth on vanilla classes, and probably will until classic hits. I recall late vanilla I wasn't really raiding much and just did battlegrounds on my warrior mostly, and then respecced elemental on the shaman and it was amazing. Elemental is shit in vanilla...for pve...but in pvp FAT CRITZZ FUK ENHANCE RNG (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P7r1Uh34ZQ)

I want to shaman again, but mage is just too damn broke to not have as a first character. Probably the best gold farmers in the game? So main may be troll mage with enchant/tailor, bank alt/real alt will be orc sham herb/alch, leveling when rested caps out. That way I can have a bank alt, but make use of rest exp to gradually get the pvp character I really want to play. Shit maybe use the mage to fund a twink, I never tried that back in the day and I totally understand the appeal now a days.

Also if I get people to play with, and they want to do alliance for whatever goddamn reason, I'm totally doing broke ass paladin. BEST PVP HEALER IN THE GAME, no doubt, and support in vanilla is really fun. Really loved it with the shaman before I respecced ele for the tail end of vanilla.

(https://i.imgur.com/0gyA3RL.jpg)

Maybe when I get around to it I'll level the elysium mage. Still level 9, don't even have my first tallent point yet.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on May 02, 2018, 08:57:07 AM
Oh man, that screenshot! I miss when my action bars were filled to the brim with abilities rather than tinker toys.

I obviously can't speak for you, but a big part of the reason that I have a hard time staying invested in WoW is because it seems as though the story designers are more interested in telling a linear, cinematic story than populating a world. Before--even as late as Mists--you could go through the leveling experience without even so much as stepping into a zone, but nowadays you're directed through the content step by step. About the only "freedom" you have now is being able to bug out early and move on.

This sounds like an odd thing to bitch about, but I also consistently feel as though I'm moving the world along rather than the world moving along around me. For an MMO, the former makes little sense. Then again, considering the writers of Legion saw fit to make every single player a leader of the same small group of organizations, I can't say that I'm surprised. The game went from you being a citizen of Azeroth with a widely variable amount of heroism (I mean, it's not like you have to raid in the earlier patches) to becoming a massive ego trip for your character.

I just wish that if Blizzard wanted to tell a linear story, they'd branch off and make a separate game out of it. Fans have been vying for Warcraft 4 for how long now? This obsession with making the player a demigod completely falls apart when you add another similarly fawned over player to your party and dare to think about it for more than a couple of seconds.

And yeah, I'm going to keep bringing up this point (I know I have in the past!). If you have two shaman on your party, you have two leaders of the Earthen Ring. Some people complained that I wasn't suspending my disbelief enough, but the crux of my point is that you never bloody had to before. The player doesn't have to be the leader of every minor faction in the game for it to be compelling. That's escalation for the sake of escalation, and Blizzard's implementation of this sort of thing is just as lousy as Bethesda's (arguably it's worse--in the Elder Scrolls games you don't have to do any of that. In WoW it's a forced part of the story).

What I'm trying to say is: /2 wtb classic plz kthx.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on May 02, 2018, 08:15:56 PM
Well whenever classic hits, let's make sure to be same server same faction. I assume you're horde?

I'm seriously going to try and connect with people to get people into this fucker. I had so much damn fun playing with other people back in the day. I even remember having people come over to my house with their desktops, and we played lowbie alliance characters on random servers and went and did deadmines and shit, it was amazing. Depending on who I know will be playing (and if they will stick with it to 60 is the key factor) I may change class away from mage. So far mage is the default, however priest and shaman are very close behind. If i had people to support me, I would have no issues healing.

You do make a great point. The game now is about turning the character into a literal god, not even a demi god. You are the master of everything and slaughter all in your path and there's only ONE of you (ignore the other 10 million who "cough" are also the ONE "cough"). There was something kinda nice about being a wee bop nobody lost in a big big world that vanilla had (I'd argue tbc as well, but less so in tbc). Plus the lack of the creature comforts we're used to, forces you to...lets hold off, what is an MMORPG. MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER? like, a lot of other people on your server to play with, as in it's not a single player game? Ohh, the old WoW forced you into playing with others because the game was hard(in comparison to the current game). Even early on first 10 levels it was very advantageous to clique with others to get certain hubs done. Remember the troll islands off the coast of durotar? Some tough enemies in there, soloable, but groups sure did help. Now a days people don't even talk. People who haven't played vanilla and current wouldn't understand, but the current game compared to the first release is as different as comparing madden NFL to NBA jam. Both sports games...both totally different.

(https://i.imgur.com/LtYC0ii.jpg)

As for the screenie (digging through what I have archived) remember kargath? ITS GONE NOW, but it was a town hordies gathered at to raid mc and bwl. Lotta good times I had there.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on May 03, 2018, 04:27:43 AM
Sounds good to me! And yeah, I main Horde (tauren and trollin' all day long, yo).

Going through the vanilla content during BC was the most fun I'd had, I think. I did enjoy raiding during Wrath, but I don't really have anything to compare it to. I never actually hit the level cap until...3.1, I think? I played at a relaxed pace for quite a while, haha.

I'm not sure what I'll be rolling when classic comes out. I have a few ideas in mind but I'm not sure exactly what I want to commit to. Hunter is an easy choice for soloing, but if I do end up getting involved in any endgame type stuff I'd probably want to go with something different. Probably magic RDPS of some description. I've done more than enough MDPS in Wrath and Cata, after all. Rolling a tank is kind of tempting, too, as long as people who decide to play on classic figure out or remember how aggro used to work. Hoo boy, that's going to kill so many people. The first few weeks are going to be hilarious.

Oh oh oh, my favorite part about them making your character a god is when they pull a bunch of stupid shit during cutscenes. Cataclysm in particular was "great" for that. As far as a character's relative power level is concerned, there were many times that I felt more like I was playing Diablo than WoW, even on my squishier toons.

I'm really trying to figure out where the beginning of the end of humility was. For a while I considered it to be Warlords, but now that I really look back I think Cataclysm is when the game started to plunge into becoming an ego trip. It wasn't nearly as egregious as making the player character a supreme leader in an alien land (then making them go out and collect the Dreanor equivalent of zhevra hooves because fuck you), but--at least as someone who mains tauren--there's some very clear signs as to where Blizzard was going with this.

So in classic WoW, tauren started off assisting their village. One of the first tasks they perform (no doubt a bit of an in-game tutorial) is assisting Greatmother Hawkwind. She's elderly and needs your help bringing water back to the village. Things do escalate, as they do, with you infiltrating a balls hard (well, it was hard until a late-Wrath patch made all of the enemies there yellow :/) quilboar area. After that, you move off to assist another camp, then to the base of Thunder Bluff, then into the city proper. That's around when your journey begins. About the only ego boost you get is that you're told that you have a strong bloodline. Beyond that, you're basically a citizen who's helping your people.

In Cataclysm, you start off in the middle of a battlezone. The quilboar are apparently pissed and started attacking everything OH NOES. You start murdering them left and right, pausing only to occasionally learn a new ability. Then you kill more things! Then click on some people to free them. Then kill some more! Most of the enemies that are red are already locked in battle with someone else, so even face pulling is hard. Valuable lessons aren't taught. You don't need to be careful in this world. Buuuut, I digress. After you kill kill kill murder death kill murder kill you find out that OH NO GREATMOTHER HAWKWIND WAS MURDERED BY BIG BAD QUILBOAR. TIME FOR COW REVENGE. You, Mr. Random Tauren #283, are the ONLY ONE who can stop the leader of the quilboar! MORE MURDER. YAY. You're like a furry version of Bruce Fucking Willis. Die Hard 6: Mul-Gore, amirite?

How FUCKING appropriate that they kill off the elderly character that requires the player character to display a sense of humility. A sense of belonging to a tribe and making your contributions to it. It's a short sequence. I mean, if you know where to go you can be done with that part of the game in 30 minutes, tops. But the thing is, it stuck with me. I hadn't played through the vanilla version of that quest line again until last year at some point and I still remember a lot of it! You get a real sense of the way that the tauren people live. They make you feel like you belong there. It's a means to ease you into the world, but there's some substance to it.

The only reason I remember the new tauren starting area at all is because it completely flies in the face of good storytelling. Funny, I don't think that's what they were going for. But hey, I guess it's kind of appropriate given how modern WoW works. Let's just start the player off killing all the things without even giving them five seconds to get invested in anything, because VIDEO GAMES!

I know that many of the other races don't start off quite that abruptly, but I think it's just an absolutely perfect example of old Blizzard vs. new Blizzard.

And yes, I know I sound bitter. It's because I am.

It's funny, because Cataclysm has the right idea in so many ways. The point you made about TBC being less of a big, big world than vanilla holds a lot of weight. Continent-based expansions like TBC and WotLK did effectively split the player base. Cataclysm brought everyone back together on two big continents (only for Mists to split them off again). Before they added zone instancing (which is a clusterfuck in its own right) the world just felt dead, even when WoW was at its peak. I don't know how they could have fixed that, but I distinctly remember being alone for such long stretches that I was surprised when I finally saw another player.

You know, on top of dealing with difficult areas with randos, I'm eager for classic just to see server culture make a return. I'm sick of it being little more than a meaningless tag next to my name. After helping my friend (attempt to) run a semi-casual raid guild in Legion, I want nothing more than to see these uncommitted fucksticks called out and drug through the mud for guild hopping and showing up to raids whenever the fuck they want to, just like how it used to be. If you repeatedly no-call-no-show to raids, you're reputation tanks and you're done. People are so used to being able to just queue for whatever they want that they don't give a shit about stuff like that anymore. AGHHHHH.

I'm going to have to go through my old hard drives one of these days and dig up my old screenshots. It'd be fun to reminisce a bit.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on May 05, 2018, 10:57:41 PM
I've binging youtube for any classic wow content I can find, and I found a video talking about things people like about the game and I heard a very good point nobody really talks about.

People talk about pvp and raiding as core things they enjoy, but what about...leveling?

Leveling in retail is just a small speedbump that gets in the way of endgame, and in vanilla it's not too far off to say leveling in vanilla is most of the entire experience. Not everybody even made it to 60, let alone raided or did level 60 pvp. I get making leveling shorter because you now have a million expansions of content to level through, but with level scaled zones now a days, maybe it's time to slow it down so people can see more of the world? I think lich king is where it started to be a less meaningful part of the game, because even in TBC it took a long time to hit 60-70. I took 9 days, but I also played like a no lifer doing multiple 48 hours without sleep...still, now a days after what, some zangarmarsh you're already 70? In tbc, it took doing like every quest in every zone, and while there were leftover quests, you basically seen the majority/entirety of every zone minus some shadowmoon valley or netherstorm whichever you did last. Shit I REALLY liked tbc, but, past vanilla every expansion has been downhill. I stuck with vanilla for the entirety of vanilla, from the start(literally created my account ~3 weeks after the game came out), to the release of tbc. Even have the tabard you get from the tbc launch event in vanilla. I stuck with tbc for a few months and QUIT, like I didn't see the end of it, or ANY expansion in this games history. I've played them (sans pandaria), but I play them, hit level cap, see some max level stuff, and quit. It's like a retail single player videogame to me, and not a world I want to log on to for the social aspects. I used to log on just to fish and talk in guild chat, I just don't get that anymore.

I'm starting to think a solution to this would be to make a new mmo entirely, they have more IP's than just warcraft. Maybe take the heroes of the storm ALL OF BLIZZARD IP'S MASHED INTO ONE idea into an mmo? Level 5 hydralisk, lets go!

Ohh and if you roll hunter, a class I personally find mostly useless for pve...not useless at all in pvp. Mage/hunter team in bg's/world pvp? UNSTOPPABABL!

Last thing today...

(https://i.imgur.com/6Dd9p68.png)

...bout...fucking...time...MONTHS to get that fucker. At least my 15 dollars wasn't totally wasted.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on May 07, 2018, 02:31:59 PM
Dude, leveling is one of the reasons I want classic servers! I leveled my hunter through vanilla during TBC (so, for the most part, I had a mostly-vanilla experience) and it is what made me fall in love with the game. There was always a sense of both danger and discovery. Furthermore, if you follow a lot of the side quests you get around town it sends you all over the damn place, where you run into more and more content.

Wrath is what started the trend where each zone had its own storyline that you'd play through and Cataclysm basically took that style and ran with it. Legion made it borderline impossible to avoid any area (at least at launch--pretty sure you can skip that now). It truly felt like the game lost a lot when I got to Northrend. It was still good, it was still challenging, but when I started leveling my second character through it I started to realize how signposted everything truly was and how any sense of emergence was just lost. I get that they only had limited space to work with, but TBC was able to pull off something far more organic in the same amount of space, so that's not really an excuse.

I've played through to the end game with every expansion from Wrath onward. I really, truly do love Wrath. I feel like it's right about where Blizzard hit the sweet spot between accessibility and hardcore (and considering that's when it reached its peak sustained subscriber count, I think a lot of people agreed). That being said, I didn't experience the vanilla and TBC endgames, so who knows? I might have enjoyed one of those more had I been around.

That said, Wrath was far more enjoyable as a solo experience because of how unbelievably fucky phasing was (and still is, honestly). Getting ICC groups teleported in was a goddamn nightmare because it was borderline impossible to find two people in Icecrown who were on the same phase for some ungodly reason. You'd think the area immediately surrounding the summoning stone would be in its own little phase, but, you know...Blizzard. Phasing was pretty much step one in giving each player their own "story." Nothing benefits a massively multiplayer game than not being able to see someone in your party because you completed one more quest in a chain than they did.

I'm really not sure that Blizzard creating a new MMO would fix anything, honestly. All they'd end up doing is taking the things we dislike about WoW and shifting them into a different IP (or set of IPs). Note that the same thing that happened to WoW (overbearing story, greatly simplified core mechanics, etc) ended up making their way to Diablo 3. The cutscenes in D3 still greatly impact the game to this day, even if you set them to auto-skip. In many cases you'd start to enter the boss chamber and it would teleport you forward into a preset position. All in the name of a story that people generally felt was meh (let's not even get into the many problems that I have with RoS's story...ugh). Go figure.

I'm kind of torn between hunter and warlock, to be honest. I have a lot of good memories of huntarding, but I never truly got to experience warlocks. Maybe I'll fiddle around on my personal server and make a decision based on that. I don't want to end up getting to level 40 and regretting everything.

Congrats on the green proto! That little bastard's eluded me for years (just like the FUCKING RAVEN LORD). <_<
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on May 16, 2018, 12:46:26 AM
I think the game at this point needs to remove "traditional" levels. They revamped the professions to where if you have 1 enchanting or whatever prof, when you start bfa, you start at 1, not at whatever level you were in legion or draenor. Each expansion is like a clean slate, for professions.

I don't think it's so farfetched for say...the expansion after bfa to eliminate the standard leveling system. Instead of going to 130, I think the baseline will be a static power level, and when you enter an expansion, you play through zones to obtain power up to some predetermined point. So if I wanted to roll a monk of which I don't have one, I could just roll one and already be ready for the current expansion content, then play that to be up to snuff. If I say waited till the expansion after, it would roll over, kinda like how purchasing the game now gives you all but the most recent expansion.

The only issue I see with that, they'd lose money in preorder incentives (FREE max level character boost), and paid level boosts.

Either way, I think the game is kind of too bloated at this point. WoW 2 has to be a thing they are talking about internally right? But if this game continues to print money, why bother with the immense amount of money and resources required to make a brand new AAA mmo. I think they need to have a new game, with leveling being just as important as the endgame.

While on wacky things they could do to make things better. Warcraft 4. How to do it with WoW existing? Blizzard aint afraid to do stupid shit, horde being an elf faction, story all sorts of wack? They aint new to funky stuff. So, split timeline. Draenor was a time traveley split timeliney type of thing. Do it again, have WoW continue in it's own timeline, and warcraft 4 exist in a seperate one. PROBLEM SOLVED blizzard you're free to make a new RTS.

...last but not least, I got my shin megami tensei strange journey coming in the mail tomorrow, in the meantime...trollin' around with the mage on lights hope. The more I play, the more I know for damn sure my main (or at least first 60) is mage. Frost tree is freaking stupid, you get tallents to double crit damage AND 50% crit rate on frozen targets? Goddamn boo, I want to pvp with this fucker. https://classicdb.ch/?talent#oV0VZZVAGGoftVo

I see almost literally no flaws in the mage. The only flaw, no heals, no tankey, but make up for it in being a god. free drinks, teleports any city you want, best gold farm in the game, solid leveling, great cc, great aoe. my ninja, what is the mage even bad at? low health? like it matters with all of the cc and utility. vanilla really sided on "pure" classes over hybrids, if you want to look at the best classes in the game being the holy qua?trinity. warrior, mage, priest, rogue. Don't even need any of the other classes really. Could even cut the rogue out of there because the warrior is so busted they take best (only!) tank slot, and with gear can out dps rogues, it's silly. Not saying other classes are useless (though hunters and druids I'd put on the bottom of the totem pole), but it ain't balanced and never pretended to be. pvp mixes it up a bit, since theres a lot more specs viable in pvp than in pve. ele sham is 100% useless garbage in pve, pretty good in pvp.

I probably repeated a lot of stuff but whatevs, vanilla is great. Best flavor of warcraft.
(https://i.imgur.com/9FQ1PMf.jpg)
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on May 16, 2018, 08:54:42 AM
I agree entirely. That's something that Blizzard hasn't been doing a great job keeping up with. As far as professions are concerned, they felt awful to grind through even as early as WotLK.

Even if they squashed the leveling experience down to make more expansions overlap (say, make it so that you theoretically wouldn't even have to go to Outland or Northrend at all if you didn't want to) that would drastically improve the experience for newer players. Even nowadays, BC and even WotLK (to a lesser extent) feel like completely different games. Not to mention that they basically hit the pause button on the current story, seeing as BC and Wrath technically take place in the past from the perspective of any new, post-Cataclysm character.

Blizzard has also been pushing the linear story angle for a very long time, so levels have become largely redundant. It's like Diablo 3's original difficulty system: the only reason they followed that path is because it was traditional.

WoW 2 would definitely prove to be a nice, clean break. It would pretty much automatically sort out all of the retcons, anachronisms, etc, with the previous game. I think the only thing that might give them pause is that they'd be stuck in an EverQuest situation: forced to support both games to some extent. WoW remains popular enough that rolling out a new MMO, even based in the same universe, would be tricky. Then again, Blizzard has more than enough cashola to support a move like that.

And yes, Warcraft 4 needs to bloody happen. Maybe they can put the writers who keep shoving linear, guided, ego-tripping storylines into WoW onto that project (where it would be way more appropriate!) and assign writers who are better versed at world building to the MMO.

For some reason I didn't even consider the mage. Definitely not a bad idea.

I also just realized one huge silver lining of vanilla: no goddamn paladins and pretty-boy elf lovers on the Horde side. That alone is a cause for a celebration!
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Bobbias on May 17, 2018, 01:38:21 AM
I literally only experienced the leveling when I played vanilla. Quit just before tbc with a lvl 42 human pally because I have horrible luck. Thanks for nerfing my class choice before I started playing blizz. I enjoyed the hell out of following the quests all over and just exploring the world, reading the quest lore text and shit. Unfortunately I was very bad at actually leveling efficiently and got bored of things when the exp to level got worse at lvl 40.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on May 19, 2018, 08:42:36 PM
I don't know what you're talking about. Paladin is great, it's just leveling is kinda boring with them, since all they really got is auto attack...they'll survive anything though. Paladin being alliance only and shaman being horde only, check this shit out.

https://www.method.gg/raid-history

World first to finish the LAST BOSS of a raid has mostly been horde, because of one single guild, but look at the rest, it's 95% alliance, why?

Paladin

They're fantastic, and in pvp they are THE best pvp healer in the game bar none.

Just don't jump into them thinking the class fantasy is class reality in classic world of warcraft, they're healers/support, and nothing else.

Leveling does get longer every 10 levels, so you're correct on that accord. 1-10 is pretty quick, 10-20 is fairly long, 20-30, you're feeling it, 30-40, marathon mode, 40-50 you should have your mount...and you'll need it since the xp don't get easier, 50-57/8 at least you got BRD. 58-60, shut up and grind, it sucks.

If I did it as a warrior in vanilla (warrior has community opinion of being THE hardest class to level in vanilla), anybody can do it with any other class.

(https://i.imgur.com/en1S08V.jpg)

Really just don't go into a hybrid class expecting to dps, or tank. You can tank lower level instances fine, but the higher level stuff mostly ain't viable. Also probably don't play druid in general.

Hitting 60 is a long ride though. I'd recommend trying not to rush it, take your time, explore and enjoy all of that jazz. It's not a race.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on May 22, 2018, 12:08:37 PM
I got to play a bit of the BfA beta on a friend's account yesterday. Blizzard made some really bizarre UI changes. There are now 5 action bars instead of 6, with the one next to the main action bar being 6-slots instead of 12 (there are still 6 action bars, all of which are 12-slots, internally, so third-party action bar replacements still work).

Aside from that, let's just say that I really fucking hate the fact that Sylvannas is Warchief even more now than I did, and that's saying something.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on May 23, 2018, 07:53:20 PM
Your post, plus me watching this video... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgi5CQ_oCEA)

I think it's kinda possible?

Fuck I'd buy it, if I knew ps4/pc would be on the same server. It won't, so if it happens, I'm not buying. Still, an interesting possibility.

Totes agree on the Sylvannas thing. I kinda don't like the horde at all after...vanilla. We got two kinds of elves now(I actually kinda like nightborne so...not really too mad at that), and a goddamn elf runs the show, an evil fucker at that. I guess that's why I'm alliance on retail.

So that's how it be. Did wailing caverns last week to get muh crescent staff. Took...over 2 hours, didn't really wipe or anything, it's just long. The more I play, I know for damn sure I want to find a group of like minded people to guild with. Going solo is fine and dandy for experiencing the game, and since it's not retail I'm not taking it too serious. But when it's out, I really want to go hard this game. Plus on a pvp server, if you run with 2-3 people questing(2 is probably optimal due to exp splitting in group), you ain't as likely to get ganked/camped. There is talk of a new server opening up on lights hope....june 23? So I might roll an alliance paladin on that fresh server to experience alliance 1-20 again. Retail for sure troll mage doe, class/race/faction is locked in at this point, thanks private servers!

(https://i.imgur.com/OfaXZgA.jpg)
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on May 23, 2018, 11:35:45 PM
Sure. I mean, Squeenix did it with both FF11 (crossplay between PS2 and PC) and FF14 (PS4 and PC). Blizzard is simplifying WoW so much that I don't see how controller play wouldn't be possible. Even if they don't add controller support, you can always connect a Bluetooth or USB keyboard/mouse to a PS4 with no problem. FF11 made use of the rarely-used USB ports on the PS2 to allow keyboard/mouse use.

I honestly can't see Classic coming to PS4, however. For one, if Blizzard doesn't want to get burned at the stake, they're going to have to make a ton of changes to vanilla in order to make that a possibility, and if it's a "series reboot" as is speculated, people are going to feel absolutely betrayed by it. I mean, they could definitely take the keyboard/mouse route with that, but you just need to fiddle with too many buttons in order to make vanilla even feasible. If they made that playable on controller it would end up being a highly compromised experience. I also can't really imagine playing anything pre-Warlords with the stock UI. Addons are so useful that it's basically given Blizzard a free pass to do the absolute bare minimum when it comes to that. Honestly, most of the reasons I use ElvUI in WoW just come with the stock UI in SW:TOR and FF14. Granted, you can't go beyond that in those two games, but at least the out of the box customization is significantly richer.

Even retail is going to be a hard sell for one reason: DBM. Blizzard is either going to basically need to integrate that into the stock UI package or somehow convince Sony to allow addons (fat chance of that happening). A lot of people argue that you don't need DBM but...well, I'm willing to bet that they either haven't raided recently or haven't gotten past LFR. Blizzard has stated that they specifically design fight mechanics with DBM in mind. I haven't raided too much in Legion, but I can say with certainty and experience that the Ursoc fight in Emerald Nightmare has such quick tank swaps that if the tanks have to call each fight, the raid leader wouldn't be able to get a word in edgewise if someone else were screwing up. On our first week the OT didn't have DBM and it was a ginormous mess of everyone talking over one another. He got DBM afterwards and the fight immediately went much smoother.

As far as the Horde goes, Thrall was alright. I was incredibly leery of Garrosh, but at the start of Cataclysm he was alright until Blizzard decreed that HE MUST BE EVIL AND DISHONORABLE ALL OF A SUDDEN. I mean, he fucking throws someone off of a spire because they nuked Kaldorei Hogwarts but then turns around and nukes Theramore? What the everloving fuck!

Then Vol'jin stepped up and I was pretty much cheering until my voice gave out. Theeeeeen they immediately killed him off because OMG BOOBS, and that's been turning out about as well as I thought it would (#NotMyWarchief). At this rate I wouldn't be surprised if Jaina became our next Warchief. Blizzard's just lost the fucking plot lately. Literally.

*takes a deep breath*

I didn't get a chance to try out a DK on BfA. Hopefully it's better than it was in Legion, because blood suuuuuuuuucked. Blizzard deciding that we didn't need physical mitigation (they allowed us far fewer blood shields with the rune/RP changes, then took icebound fortitude away from blood--they fixed the latter in 7.1 at least) fucked us in the early endgame wasn't even the worst part. They just took away every last bit of nuance. Literally every other class (and even spec--I enjoyed frost for the first time since frost tanking was a thing!) felt better. Ugh.

I'm probably going to roll on a PvE server whenever I do the Classic thing. I just like to be able to solo level once in a while without stressing. I don't mind PvP if it's a fair fight (I actually had a fun little druid vs. druid skirmish in Stranglethorn once--we knocked off about half of our health pools before /hugging and walking away), but in my experience on a PvP realm (a few months in WotLK and whenever Legion decided to x-realm me into a fucking PvP realm just because someone in my raid group happened to be in one) I've found that it almost never is. I'm sure that would be less of an issue with a smaller pop, but I just don't want to deal with that.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on May 25, 2018, 06:52:14 PM
Ohh no way in hell classic would work on console, but the current game probably would be fine.

I'm going to go on a little about pvp for a moment. PvP in the current game, world pvp, ain't worth a damn, I've been on PvE since lich king. Vanilla though, PvE literally feels like part of the game is missing, like I can't even fathom why one would roll a vanilla rogue on a PvE server because of all they can do on a PvP server. There's a huge HUGE difference between vanilla and any other expansion for world pvp, and that's the absence of flying. No flying, no phasing, no cross realm, so that fucker that ganked you, you can get revenge. Unless they hearth, they'll still be there.

I do get not wanting random high levels coming down to ruin your day, but I think it's part of the experience. Seeing the world defense channel (remember that?) having people get ganked by a higher level, and requesting help, that's where the fun is imo. World pvp isn't fair, you will die, and there's nothing you can do about it, but it's fun that a gank can call for high level re inforcements, on one end, to end the conflict, or have more reinforcements from the other into a little mini spontaneous war. It's a cool dynamic I miss from the old game, the whole community aspect of each individual server is more impactful when you have pvp in the mix. 

Still going to have people camp you, and potentially force you to level in another zone or area, but that's part of it. I managed two 60's on PvP servers on vanilla, and I got my shaman to 70 week freaking one on tbc on a PvP server (week 1 = nobody had a flying mount), and it was great. I never understood why lich king needed to seperate players to two zones because I literally didn't have any issues in hellfire peninsula day one launch of the game on a pvp server. Also you get situations when raiding, all 40 people roll out, and you run into an alliance guild going to the same place at the same time...It's like av happening in the world spontaneously, its glorious.

Either way I'm not hating, maybe you'll level an alt on pvp so we can level together in the future or something. Believe me, I get the appeal of pve, I did that from lich king to present. I just feel pvp in vanilla (and maybe tbc) made a nice experience, and forces people to work together even more to get by. It's an MMO and the more reasons to force people to team up, the better, else I could play a single player game that doesn't force a subscription fee upon me.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on May 25, 2018, 07:21:00 PM
It's going to depend on the player count, methinks. If they can maintain a solid player count in each shard then I can see world PvP working as you describe. Thing is, as you know, BC and WotLK fractured the world to the point that trying to get said reinforcements was a chore. All it took was a few bored top level players and you'd be unable to do much of anything, period. I probably would have enjoyed that sort of experience more when I was younger, but now I honestly can't be bothered. I have too many other hobbies and games and too little free time to be stopped dead in my tracks by a few unskilled hacks who have higher numbers than I do. I can see the appeal for some, but it's just not for me.

That said, I wouldn't be opposed to rolling an alt and leveling as a group in a PvP server. That alone can even the playing field by quite a bit (and make it pretty much impossible for a single rogue to stun lock someone to death). WorldDefense would also actually work in vanilla seeing as there's only two continents to contend with.

Also, there is definitely some form of emergent PvP even on PvE realms, though it does obviously work a lot differently. "The Crossroads (or Tarren Mill if you're an easterner) is Under Attack," after all, and you can't turn in your quests until you deal with the Alliance menace. :) It's just a bit more moderated, I guess. I've come to the defense of Thrallmar, the Crossroads, and capital cities on numerous occasions and I liked being able to participate on my own terms.

I think WotLK did the two zone thing solely because of the player count. I played it very early on and the sheer volume of players pretty much broke the game entirely--I can't even imagine what it would have been like if everyone had been dropped into a single zone. It's a problem that Blizzard never really solved before CRZ was rolled out across the board. As much as I loathe it for the reworked Cataclysm zones and BC/WotLK mining (where there simply aren't enough nodes/mobs to go around), it had the effect of making player counts drop in crowded areas for the most part. I remember Mists and Warlords both being borderline unplayable in the first week due to the sheer volume of players that got funneled into the single starting zones of those expansions.

THAT SAID, CRZ really loves to fuck everyone over so it can eat a big, sweaty dick. I can't count the number of times it put me in zones that were so Alliance-heavy that there were almost no mobs left for me to kill. Nice faction balancing you've got there, Blizzard. That seems to happen the most in Spires of Arak. Naturally, it's one of my favorite questing zones, so it annoys the piss out of me whenever it happens.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on June 21, 2018, 12:56:04 AM
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/21881587/dev-watercooler-world-of-warcraft-classic (https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/21881587/dev-watercooler-world-of-warcraft-classic)

Looks like Blizzard is taking an interesting approach to how they're going to implement WoW Classic.

To summarize: they decided to replicate 1.12, dusted off their archives, and were able to get a client/server build up and running. However, as I suggested, they were 13 years behind on critical security updates, ran into hardware compatibility issues in some cases, and obviously it didn't support their new login system at all. Instead of trying to maintain two divergent code branches (which is difficult for a small project, let alone a project with that level of complexity), they are porting the old data to run on their new server infrastructure with a modern client, and they're showing every indication of following the #NoChanges mindset along the way.

I suspect there are going to be some things that feel a bit different as a result of this, but I suspect that using a newer client is going to generally be a positive. I'm thinking that the shenanigans that you could pull off with addons in 1.x (like addons that would basically just let you "play" a class with a single button) will, I imagine, be nullified with the secure action system. At the same time, the new APIs introduced later on will more than likely work, so I would assume that some modern addons will still work so you won't have to hunt down ancient scraps of Lua and XML in order to watch your threat. Speaking of threat, if the new APIs are available, the threat API that was introduced in 3.x should be there as well so Omen won't have to guess like it did in Vanilla/TBC.

Much of the WoW UI is defined by XML and Lua code, so I imagine that after they port the old code to the new engine it'll look the same. The option pages will probably still look modern, but that's not really a bad thing. One of the main drawbacks of Vanilla is that it runs on DirectX 9 and OpenGL. The former isn't exactly a first-class citizen in modern Windows versions, and macOS is deprecating OpenGL so the latter is far less appealing. The newer engines can use DirectX 11 (maybe 12 in BfA, though that won't matter too much at this time), Vulkan, and Metal (on macOS), so the graphic APIs will be fully modernized, ensuring compatibility with modern systems. The only downside is that you won't be able to dust off an old XP box or PPC Mac and play Classic with them. Oh no.

So yeah, color me intrigued. Definitely interested in reading more about this.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on June 26, 2018, 02:09:55 PM
Might be surprising from me, but im not #nochanges.

For one, it's impossible, they have to tinker around with stuff to get it on modern infrastructure. For two, not all changes are awful.

Paying for a max level character, elllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll naw.

But stuff like, OPTIONAL toggle for new character models and whatnot? I don't see why people get uppity over that, since ideally it'll be default to old models, and you don't have to see them.

As long as the spirit of the original is kept in tact, im fine with whatever....mostly. I don't want any balance changes or any of that, with the (actually non biased) shaman rework that never happened because tbc came out being a possibility. Every class in the game got a major rework to my knowledge, minus shaman which is the least changed class in vanilla iirc. I'm more #minimalchanges because not all changes are equal.

I did forget to mention I got into the BFA beta, but besides making a character...I haven't really played at all.  I'm actually contemplating skipping BFA since having leveled 8? characters to max level in legion, it kind of takes the meaning out of it for me. Sorta similar to diablo 3 seasons where you get god tier gear...then next season its meaningless, then you get even more god tier gear...wiped clean again. It's fine and dandy, but after a few cycles of that, who cares about gear/leveling when you know the outcome wont last the next few months.

Being forced to work for something makes it worth a lot more, and the current game does it so little, I don't even have the motivation to play it for free when they gave me a beta invite.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on June 29, 2018, 12:22:48 PM
I tend to lean toward the minimal changes approach, myself. I certainly don't mind graphical updates and such as long as they keep the gameplay as similar as possible.

Even stuff like bringing in the mount selection screen from BC (well, it'd more likely be the Legion one) would be nice, since having mounts in your inventory is kind of silly. That said, I do plan on rolling a tauren, and their mount selection was extremely limited up through…3.0.8, I think? So yeah, gonna have to get used to seeing kodos again. :P

I fiddled around with the BFA beta on a friend's account and…ye gods, it's legit making me consider changing faction. Ugh. I just hope it gets better on the Horde side beyond the initial bits. At this point, I'd welcome another Warchief change.

I don't particularly mind the way that WoW handles gear (though I totally get why you might be burned out after leveling 8 characters in one xpac, heh). If I raid or grind dungeons I typically do it because I enjoy it—the gear is just a nice little bonus for doing that. It's a far cry from Diablo 3 seasons where you're literally doing the same thing from one season to the next.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on November 05, 2018, 11:34:11 AM
How bout that blizzcon eh?

Ignoring the dumpster fire that was everything besides classic wow and WARCRAFT 3 REFORGED, I actually said last week before the announcement I wanted a warcraft 3 remaster over a diablo 2 remaster or even a diablo 4. I am quoted to say this at work, and I am very moist by the announcement. warcraft 3 is amongst the best videogames ever crafted by man, and my first dip into competitive 1v1 videogames over the internet, learning from loss without getting too upset, and trying to better myself., I am overall very pleased.

Summer release date marks a few things.

-Need to somehow get a new job that pays roughly what I make at 50 hours, with 40 hours...yeah good luck with that...mister I got no degree. If not, I'll still be able to put in some hours. I managed to beat a few games since the hour increase, so it can't be ALL bad. My body is already used to the workload, it's just a matter of less free time mostly.

-Laptop so I can play in my recliner without totally destroying my back at the desktop.

-Group of people to play with who aren't totally bumfuck casual, but also not "unemployed playing all day dedicate your life to the game" hardcore. I like progress, but even a nerd like me has some kind of a life, somehow.

-Based on the above point faction/race/class/professions. I want horde, but if the people I want to play with are alliance, it's fine.

If horde. Troll Mage, mining/engineering. Bank alt orc shaman or warrior, enchanting/???
If alliance. Dwarf Priest, mining/engineering (mining is a moneymaker, engineering for going bankrupt...err...PEE VEE PEE). Bank alt...some unclothed elf or something standing on a mailbox probably

My hype will die down before release, but damn if I got something nice to look forward to 2019, two nice things at that!

Now to find a laptop...
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on November 12, 2018, 02:42:35 PM
How bout that blizzcon eh?

Heh.

My favorite part of it has been the frantic attempts at damage control.

-Need to somehow get a new job that pays roughly what I make at 50 hours, with 40 hours...yeah good luck with that...mister I got no degree.

FWIW, my degree didn't do anything for me aside from put me deeply in debt.

-Group of people to play with who aren't totally bumfuck casual, but also not "unemployed playing all day dedicate your life to the game" hardcore. I like progress, but even a nerd like me has some kind of a life, somehow.

How about "unemployed playing all day yet still bad at the game," like my former guild leader? ;D

In all seriousness, I'd be down for that, at least for a while. I miss the classic guild dynamic, before the days of cross-realm bullshit. I'm pretty good at doing things, too.

For Thrall's Horde!
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on August 25, 2019, 09:21:29 PM
It's almost time, game installed, gametime added to account, just have to wait till 8/26/19 6pm est

No idea what (PVP) server I'll be rolling on
No idea if I'll change to priest over mage last second
No idea what profs I'll start

Gonna just let it happen, lets get ready boyzzz

Will update with server and whatnot when I'm finally in azeroth. Only things I know is Horde, pvp.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on August 26, 2019, 08:13:52 AM
Tempting as it is to jump in on launch day, I think I'm going to wait a week and let things simmer down a bit. I've got enough of a backlog, both in terms of gaming and general nerd stuff, to carry me through that.

I should probably get Classic installed on the iMac I have in my workshop (which was actually my main WoW machine from Mists through Legion). It only has a 680MX, but with the new engine running vanilla graphics it should still be able to push medium-high at 1440p. That'll give me something other than IIDX to play while I wait for my lovely machines to poop out plastic. :P

Only things I know is Horde, pvp.

LOK'TAR, OGAR! FOR THE HORDE!

I still haven't decided on a class (heavily leaning toward hunter, that being my first ever class and all), but I'm definitely going to main a Horde toon on a PvE realm. I'll probably dabble with Alliance toons here and there, mostly to experience the early game quests, but my heart will always be with the tauren.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on August 26, 2019, 01:27:33 PM
Incendius (PvP)

Shalazar, troll mage
Gerald, orc shaman


*edit*
Herod (PvP)

Found my old guild and I needs to roll with them, 17,000th in queue (that is not a typo) lets go!
*edit*

servers up in ~5 hours as of this post, but the new servers came up so I went on the new east coast pvp one.

Shame you're going pve, woulda been nice to have anybody I know irl/online to join me. I just feel pvp server is how the game is meant to be enjoyed in vanilla, and after flying was introduced the very next expansion world pvp died and thus it's a pve game.

I do want to make my alliance alt a dwarf priest, so if i'm feeling it maybe i'd do pve with that character...with the exception "priests melt face in pvp" kinda make me wanna do pvp server for that character as well...

If anything it's more authentic going into the game solo with no connections, it's how I originally played the game, and all the friends I had who played played on completely different servers. We'd talk about the game, but never play with eachother, with exception of the few times we physically lanned the game at my house and played up to deadmines, that was a good time.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on August 27, 2019, 12:18:15 PM
Yeah, I tend to just prefer a more relaxed experience. I tried leveling on PvP realms and I always ended up annoyed. I think I ended up with exactly one reasonable PvP encounter with an evenly matched opponent. Every other time I just wound up getting ganked by someone twice my level and it just made me not even want to bother playing.

I've done consensual PvP before—city attacks and BGs. I don't mind that so much because it's generally done on fairly even terms.

Speaking of PvP, did they bring back DHKs? Heh.

And yeah, definitely agreed with diving in solo. Nothing is going to bring back the feeling of coming in as a new player with very little idea of what I'm doing, but I think enough time has passed that the classic quest lines are going to feel fresh again.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on August 27, 2019, 05:31:46 PM
I mean pvp probably isn't for you the way you word it.

"evenly matched opponent"

That ain't world pvp. World pvp is gangsta, running up on some fool and blasting him. Then he gets his friends, and could ignite a war. Evenly matched pvp is what I believe arenas to be in TBC. World pvp is kinda just fun for the sake of fun, not because you get a prize for doing it, and that's kinda why I like it. Also has certain advantages like in pve server, an opposite faction is up in your farming area, you can't do nothing to him. Pvp you can get a few guildies and "persuade them to farm elsewhere", and I like it.

Not to mention the feeling of being in a contested area actually feels like being in a contested area, pve it's no different than being in alliance or horde territory.

BUT THATS JUST MY 2 copper pieces.

I am totally eating my words on the diving in solo because 10 minutes before launch I seen the remains of my old guild still going at it, so I have that double nostalgia factor of playing with the same guys in 2019 as I did in 2005. Guild aint formed yet because nobody can get in game(6+ hour long queues)...but when it do, it do.

Hey when you are in, game plays great. I got up to level 12 with the mage and im running like 20ms (which feels great to me) and everything feels smooth. Even people forming actual queues for certain quest items, it's weird, but people are communicating and whatnot, it's great.

Down the road after I have a 60 or two under my belt we could roll some throwaway alts to play together, and if anyone else wants in we could get some stuff going. Rolling alts with people is still fun imo. I am not a fan of the hunter class, but in vanilla I rolled a hunter 1-10 with every race in the game, because kiting stuff around was just that fun to me before you get pet. Totally see myself doing it again.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on August 28, 2019, 07:54:16 AM
Yeah, the "friend" thing is where the problem generally lies, haha. I'm pretty much the only person I know who's jumping in on Classic, so the only chance I'd have is begging LocalDefense or a nearby city for help. I've done that before and have gotten results, but I don't have as much free time as I did 12 years ago, so I'll pass.

I think I'm going to really enjoy the latency (or lack thereof). That's one thing that modern WoW is unquestionably better at. I'm honestly pretty impressed that it's holding at 20ms at launch, too. I was around for the WotLK launch and it was, uh. Yeah.

I've had a lot of really good experiences as a hunter when I first started playing, mostly involving soloing group quests at level. Seriously made me feel like the king of the goddamn world. Now that I know what I'm doing I should be able to take on even more of them. That said, I'm kind of tempted to broaden my horizons a bit. While I've played every class up through at least level 20 during BC and WotLK, most of my actual leveling was done in Cata and beyond. I'd kind of like to at least experience mid-game play for some of the other classes.

And hell yeah, let me know when you want to do that.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on August 30, 2019, 01:11:10 AM
Just got done with my first night on Classic (Azuresong Horde) and...my god. It was amazing.

I mean, let's just throw questing and the actual gameplay aside. That doesn't matter. The thing that blew my mind was how general was filled up with people chatting, coordinating, and reminiscing. It felt like a chatroom full of randos that happened to be attached to a video game. It seriously took me back to a much better time in MMORPG history when the community actually mattered. Everyone was helping one another. Rare spawns would elicit open calls to group rather than people sniping the mob.

A quick "let's play for an hour to get through most of Mulgore" turned into three hours of me only getting to Bloodhoof Village and mostly just chilling with the others. Nobody was in this ungodly hurry to leave, and every time someone did move onto the Barrens there were fond farewell messages.

I think I absolutely fucking love this.

My only regret is that I have to work tomorrow and couldn't continue playing. I'd planned to call it by midnight at the latest. It's currently 1:10AM. I regret nothing.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Bobbias on August 30, 2019, 01:47:17 PM
Sounds awesome. The gf and I have been talking about classic, but still haven't actually committed to it.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on August 30, 2019, 09:22:55 PM
My server has 6 hour queues, so thats my biggest problem right now...

Besides that, when I'm in game, I don't want to stop. Only level 16 right now (would be like 24 if I was playing durring queue times) and I need moar. Bob if you want in on that classic, and you want to be on a poppin server, probably wait a few weeks. Cost of entry is cheap, only the monthly fee, no base game purchase required.

There are lower pop servers with no queue, but only worry about those is if they'll have legs in a few months when playerbase starts to drop.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on August 31, 2019, 09:57:44 AM
I have a feeling that when the dust settles they're going to start collapsing the realm list.

Plus, from what I've read, their current definition of "medium" population is quite a bit higher than "full" was in vanilla WoW, so being on a smaller realm (by today's standards) will be far more viable than it used to be.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on September 03, 2019, 05:51:36 PM
I'm gonna have to recalibrate my favorite zones list, because I put stonetallon mountains on there.

I think it was due to it being the first real world pvp I experienced, but doing some 1k needles (well under leveled for it, but grouped up with a guy 4 levels higher than me) and I forgot how cool that zone is.

Come to think of it, I never did sfk, or bfd, and I both think sfk is alright, and bfd is the worst instance in the game. It's nice to have a second look at things.

(https://i.imgur.com/dLdqGFh.jpg)
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on September 16, 2019, 05:22:52 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/4JfiT5E.jpg)

I've been playing...A LOT...

Late to the party almost 42 and I just get it, but better late than never. We mounted boyzzzz!
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on September 20, 2019, 08:30:11 AM
I was lv.42 when I got my first mount in BC. Good times. :)

I need to play Classic more. I've been too busy with other stuff. The only unfortunate thing is that my cow dude is going to be stuck riding kodos (unless I get a PvP mount, but I'm not planning to gun for those), but I suppose I'll live.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: NewF on September 23, 2019, 10:38:13 PM
I joined up in Classic WoW as well. Sulfuras server. Im a little slow on the leveling cause I got my own IRL stuff to deal with, but in the top guild on the server. We have realm first Ragnaros and Onyxia kills. Will be excited once I hit 60.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: vladgd on October 07, 2019, 07:40:55 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/sMlCixw.jpg)

No life high school me took from December 2004-April 2005 to ding 60.

No life 50 hour work week me took about 5-6 weeks.

Had to ding in the winterspring lake as is tradition, all my 60's end here.

Now to wait for the rest of the guild to hit 60, since im only the 4th...
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on October 09, 2019, 10:14:57 AM
Congrats, mon!

It's kind of amazing how much more efficient you can be when you sort of know what's going on. It felt like it took forever for me to hit 80 my first time (never hit the cap until Wrath, obviously) but subsequent caps happened much, much faster.

Kind of a shame the game loses a bunch of its magic and wonderment when you know what you're doing, but I guess that's to be expected.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Spectere on October 10, 2019, 01:30:07 PM
Blizzard committed a well-publicized, catastrophically huge oof recently, so I cancelled my subscription in protest.

I love this game, but freedom is far more important than my feelings.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft
Post by: Bobbias on October 10, 2019, 06:09:13 PM
I have nothing to cancel, but I would have done the same. Blizzard really fucked this one up.