Author Topic: Healthcare Reform?  (Read 6477 times)

OmegaOmni

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Re: Healthcare Reform?
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2010, 05:13:26 PM »
I agree this country is based off the free market.  This means that the free market for shopping for health care could be greatly ruined.

Kulli

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Re: Healthcare Reform?
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2010, 05:33:27 PM »
The thing is, it's not about Obama wants.  It's about what the people want.  I hate to burst your little bubble, but they true purpose of our government, as it was designed, is/was to protect people against force and fraud, provide people with representation in government, and conduct Official Business.  The End.  The reason we call our elected representatives "public servants" is so that they can be servants of the public, not so they can make our decisions for us, especially ones that we don't want, no matter how amazingly great of an idea it is.  Nonetheless, even if HR 3200, Obama's original plan, was passed with no changes along the way, it would still be a monstrosity.  A gazillion pages worth of shoddy details, ect.

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." ~Benjamin Franklin
You know what Franklin did when asked about the possibility of government-run hospitals?  He opened up a charity hospital with his own wealth.

I mean, if you like Canada's health care system, great!  Live in Canada.  But we (majority of Americans) don't.

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Health care cannot be a right by any stretch whatsoever.  You could maybe argue that the government has a duty to provide health care, but it's not a right.  A right is a freedom of action, ie, speech, life, protection; they're not goods, commodities, or services.  For this reason, I strongly disagree with people who claim they have a right to health care.  And people like Nancy Pelosi, who claim the passage of the bill is the equivalent to the civil rights acts are despicable.

EDIT: lol at the idea that letting people die/getting 5-figure health costs is just fine because government are just "public servants" so free health care is not a right

pretty cool imo
« Last Edit: March 23, 2010, 06:02:01 PM by v33mon »

Eggman

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Re: Healthcare Reform?
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2010, 07:38:19 PM »
I agree this country is based off the free market.  This means that the free market for shopping for health care could be greatly ruined.

It's ruined right now and this will only lead to it being fixed. The current way of healthcare involves everyone being ripped off constantly. You have no idea how badly health insurance companies have been screwing over the public.

淫蟲

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Re: Healthcare Reform?
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2010, 09:16:57 PM »
EDIT: lol at the idea that letting people die/getting 5-figure health costs is just fine because government are just "public servants" so free health care is not a right

Wait when did I say letting people die/getting 5-figure health costs is alright?  "Free" health care cannot be a right because a right is a freedom of action; health care is a service that can be bought and traded, not an action that can be carried out by an individual by their own volition.  As I said, you could argue that the government may have a duty to provide such goods, commodities, and services, but they are not natural rights because they contradict what rights are.  

I don't think the government should run health care, or act as a public insurance company because they give themselves a de jure monopoly.  To say that the government wouldn't act as evil as an evil insurance company that would be granted a monopoly, and made it so people had to purchase from them or be fined, or would only exist to force competition, would be like saying that an evil insurance company who would be granted a monopoly, with the government making it so people had to purchase from them or be fined, and were exempt from taxes, regulations, ect, would turn out to be the greatest insurance company of all time who would never look out for their own self-interests.

And in regard to the government trying to force competition: it can't.  It can't force growth, competition, innovation, or anything that the free market system is great at.  Any such is artificial, akin to stapling a pair of bird's wings to a dog and claiming they've created a new species.

BUT in regard to your point, any person who is in need of medical services would ideally be taken care of by charity.  Ideally, charity hospitals and not for profit organizations would take care of these people; believe it or not, people's benevolence is more effective and of a higher quality than the "charity" of the government.

PS. The only thing wrong with the insurance companies is that they exist in a country whose economic system is not that of laissez-faire capitalism, but of crony capitalism.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2010, 09:20:12 PM by Pancake »

Bobbias

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Re: Healthcare Reform?
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2010, 10:31:38 PM »
Alright. My post may have been a little out of line.

I was going to write a wall of text, then I decided that there's no point in going so far into what I believe.

In a perfect world, where there is truly free trade, where there is no crony capitalism, where competition drives prices to a reasonable level, and where the number of benevolent individuals heavily outweighs (or at least balances) the malicious, I would think that health care would be available to anyone who needs it, at either an affordable price, or by way of charity, to those who are unable to pay the price. In that world, I can see it as being equal to healthcare provided by the government to every citizen, like we have in Canada.

In the real world, things don't work that way. people are greedy, and companies are even worse, because the people involved are shielded from how terrible the company really is. If there is a way to make more money than the "honest" way, a company will most likely find it, and do it. In a perfect world, companies wouldn't spend more money advertising their donations to charities than they actually donated. But in our world, that happens all the time.

Sometimes, someone needs to step in, and decide when a company has gone too far.

I'm not advocating a healthcare system where the government fleeces the public as much, or more (like that's possible...), than the current system. I'm advocating a true reform where the system serves the people, and cares for them.

The government should be like your parents. Supportive, always willing to give assistance to you when you need it, always concerned about your issues, be it health, money, or something else, but knowing when to step back, and let you make your own choices, good or bad.
This is going in my sig. :)


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MortifiedocAlot

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Re: Healthcare Reform?
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2010, 04:29:28 PM »
I honestly don't see why it's such a massive deal. People shouldn't go without health insurance, it's just a fucking dumb thing to do and it's generally a burden to everyone involved.

It seems generally sound overall, I mean sure is has some problems but it shouldn't be the massive fuck up that some people are hyping it up to be.

Plus, FUCK the medical industry, they need someone to step in and tell them not to be such a massive gathering of assholes. Plus, the fact that they actually address and help with the whole "Doughnut hole" situation is great.

Quote
Beginning in 2010, people who fall into this hole will get $250 from the government to help. Thereafter, according to the bill, the US will gradually increase the percentage of drug costs it pays within this gap. By 2020, the US will pay 75 percent of senior drug costs between $2,700 and $6,154.



flaffl

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Re: Healthcare Reform?
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2010, 01:37:36 PM »
FUCK POOR PEOPLE. GET MONEY AND WORK FOR YOUR SHIT

Kulli

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Re: Healthcare Reform?
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2010, 02:30:16 PM »
FUCK POOR PEOPLE. GET MONEY AND WORK FOR YOUR SHIT

you won't be saying that when your parents stop paying for your insurance, bro

Ulti

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Re: Healthcare Reform?
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2010, 04:01:03 AM »
you won't be saying that when your parents stop paying for your insurance, bro

Quoted for a ridiculous amount of truth...

MortifiedocAlot

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Re: Healthcare Reform?
« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2010, 05:55:23 PM »
I don't think he was serious.


Kulli

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Re: Healthcare Reform?
« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2010, 06:56:20 PM »
Eh, I took it seriously because I used to think like that. But now that I'm going to college in a different state...

flaffl

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Re: Healthcare Reform?
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2010, 06:04:18 PM »
I don't think he was serious.

Meh, tbh I wasn't but at the same time I kinda was. I don't necessarily agree 100% but it's regardless a very very good idea.