Author Topic: Healthcare Reform?  (Read 12262 times)

Sqthreer!

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Healthcare Reform?
« on: March 22, 2010, 02:55:16 PM »
Anybody care to explain this new and apparently important bill thinger that is going down?

All I've heard is that healthcare will now be mandatory, and taxes for the wealthy will increase. I suppose I could look it up on some news website but it seems like something worthy of discussing anyway. I'd like to hear everyone's own interpretation of this reform and how it affects you.
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『フエハデ』

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Re: Healthcare Reform?
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2010, 03:05:21 PM »
Mandatory coverage and no public option means no reform, no competition, no personal choice. This is just another betrayal of the citizens to corporate interests.

Sqthreer!

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Re: Healthcare Reform?
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2010, 03:11:00 PM »
It's still a "reform" by definition, just for the fact that the system is changing...

And why, exactly, is it a betrayal of America?
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『フエハデ』

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Re: Healthcare Reform?
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2010, 03:33:55 PM »
If everyone is required to have insurance, there isn't much to stop health care companies from raising their premiums, and there's not a damn thing we can do about it besides be fined for not buying in. I love the provision that keeps them from rejecting people due to pre-existing conditions, but you know they'll use that as an excuse to raise premiums through the roof. If they competed against each other, that would be one thing, but there's not really much competition to go around. (It's even worse than the car insurance racket, which at least has some pretense of competition.) No public option means no forced competition, means no motivation to provide low prices. As far as betrayal, my opinion is that giving health insurance companies the means and the motive to financially rape average people is pretty crappy.

Sneaky

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Re: Healthcare Reform?
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2010, 03:50:21 PM »
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2010/0322/Health-care-reform-bill-101-what-the-bill-means-to-you

read up sons, so we can discuss. I haven't read shit about this yet.
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Sqthreer!

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Re: Healthcare Reform?
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2010, 04:12:36 PM »
words

Okay well that makes sense. I can definitely see the negative aspect of something like this, but there's no reason to rely on one possible outcome happening. From what I've read (see: skimmed) of Sneaky's link, the insurance companies losing money from not rejecting patients for pre-existing conditions might be balanced out by the flow of young, healthier people who would come in now that they can.

And as for the fine for not complying, it looks like it won't be implemented until 2014, if the bill lasts beyond this year anyway.

I like the idea of having healthcare, but making it mandatory and still charging unreasonable prices for it seems shitty.  At this point it's still all speculation for me though :/
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Re: Healthcare Reform?
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2010, 04:36:45 PM »
I was against the public option before it was removed in the Senate version because it could have allowed the government to have a monopoly of the health insurance industry; they could theoretically force competition, but like any company that would be granted a monopoly, it would look out for its own interests, meaning running any other company out of business.

The best type of reform, in my opinion, would be that which gave individuals more power and got rid of the government interference that plagues the system.

I also never understood why the bill had to be so god damn long.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2010, 04:38:23 PM by Pancake »

Sqthreer!

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Re: Healthcare Reform?
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2010, 05:11:00 PM »
Well the Patriot Act apparently was only read completely by one or two members of congress before it passed because it was so long, and only person voted against it (probably the one who actually bothered to read it).
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Eggman

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Re: Healthcare Reform?
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2010, 07:15:11 PM »
If everyone is required to have insurance, there isn't much to stop health care companies from raising their premiums, and there's not a damn thing we can do about it besides be fined for not buying in. I love the provision that keeps them from rejecting people due to pre-existing conditions, but you know they'll use that as an excuse to raise premiums through the roof. If they competed against each other, that would be one thing, but there's not really much competition to go around. (It's even worse than the car insurance racket, which at least has some pretense of competition.) No public option means no forced competition, means no motivation to provide low prices. As far as betrayal, my opinion is that giving health insurance companies the means and the motive to financially rape average people is pretty crappy.

That's not really how it works.

『フエハデ』

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Re: Healthcare Reform?
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2010, 09:56:43 PM »
Feel free to enlighten me, then. I expect the worst out of corporations, and they usually deliver.

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Re: Healthcare Reform?
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2010, 10:54:30 PM »
I am not against public health care but what I am reading seems like this not what I would want.  I personaly think it is bullshit that one has to have it or be fined...some people cannot afford it.  I know I can't.  Why is there the potental that I must pay a fine for not being covered under shitty health insurance that I probably can't afford in the first place.  Has the government forgot about a thing called Natural Selection and the Life Cycle...sorry if I am being cynical but thats how I feel.

Bobbias

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Re: Healthcare Reform?
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2010, 09:14:37 AM »
Coming form someone who has public healthcare, I can say this: If you guys stopped gettting all pissy about the government "interfering" with your precious freedom, maybe obama wouldn't have to push through such a mangled version of his idea. The only reason that you are seeing that reform, rather than the one Obama really wants is because everybody and their mother thinks that universal helthcare is some plot to turn the states into some communist regime. I'm sorry to burst your little bubble, but the purpose of government is to GOVERN. To control the country, to mkae choises for the people of the country. Occasionally, the government has to make decisions that aren't appreciated by the people. However, just because the people don't like the changes, doesn't mean they aren't a good idea.

I like my healthcare system. A lot. The only problem I have with it is the waiting times, and that's partially because lots of doctors know they can make more money by going to the states, and charging an arm and a leg rather than the government controlled amounts they get here. But don't think that the government screws them over. Doctors can still afford bigger houses, and nicer cars, and can afford to send their children to university more than the rest of us.

What our healthcare did was decide that everyone, whether they're that hobo on the street, or the richest prick, has the right to good health. Unfortunately, you people seem to think that money decides who has the right to live or die. I don't say that lightly either. Here, if you need something to live, the government will pay for it. I've heard plenty of stories about how people have died in the states because they couldn't afford treatment. I don't see how anyone who has a conscicence can say that that is right.

So what do I have to sya about your healthcare reform? You did it to yourselves. If anything bad comes of this, rather than good, it's because nobody had the brains and the guts to stand up and support a proper health care reform in the states. This is not something you can do halfway and leave it at that.
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Re: Healthcare Reform?
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2010, 01:05:01 PM »
Unfortunately, you people seem to think that money decides who has the right to live or die.

Excuse me, "you people?"

I hardly believe we all think that way.  If I had it my way, everyone would get good healthcare whether they had money or not. 
actually fuck you guys just kidding keep my quote in your sigs

Kulli

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Re: Healthcare Reform?
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2010, 02:44:33 PM »
Coming form someone who has public healthcare, I can say this: If you guys stopped gettting all pissy about the government "interfering" with your precious freedom, maybe obama wouldn't have to push through such a mangled version of his idea. The only reason that you are seeing that reform, rather than the one Obama really wants is because everybody and their mother thinks that universal helthcare is some plot to turn the states into some communist regime. I'm sorry to burst your little bubble, but the purpose of government is to GOVERN. To control the country, to mkae choises for the people of the country. Occasionally, the government has to make decisions that aren't appreciated by the people. However, just because the people don't like the changes, doesn't mean they aren't a good idea.

I like my healthcare system. A lot. The only problem I have with it is the waiting times, and that's partially because lots of doctors know they can make more money by going to the states, and charging an arm and a leg rather than the government controlled amounts they get here. But don't think that the government screws them over. Doctors can still afford bigger houses, and nicer cars, and can afford to send their children to university more than the rest of us.

What our healthcare did was decide that everyone, whether they're that hobo on the street, or the richest prick, has the right to good health. Unfortunately, you people seem to think that money decides who has the right to live or die. I don't say that lightly either. Here, if you need something to live, the government will pay for it. I've heard plenty of stories about how people have died in the states because they couldn't afford treatment. I don't see how anyone who has a conscicence can say that that is right.

So what do I have to sya about your healthcare reform? You did it to yourselves. If anything bad comes of this, rather than good, it's because nobody had the brains and the guts to stand up and support a proper health care reform in the states. This is not something you can do halfway and leave it at that.

Bobbias thinks he's posting on the GOP website

ps just because you were lucky enough to be from Canada doesn't mean you should rub it in, bro

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Re: Healthcare Reform?
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2010, 03:37:37 PM »
The thing is, it's not about Obama wants.  It's about what the people want.  I hate to burst your little bubble, but they true purpose of our government, as it was designed, is/was to protect people against force and fraud, provide people with representation in government, and conduct Official Business.  The End.  The reason we call our elected representatives "public servants" is so that they can be servants of the public, not so they can make our decisions for us, especially ones that we don't want, no matter how amazingly great of an idea it is.  Nonetheless, even if HR 3200, Obama's original plan, was passed with no changes along the way, it would still be a monstrosity.  A gazillion pages worth of shoddy details, ect.

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." ~Benjamin Franklin
You know what Franklin did when asked about the possibility of government-run hospitals?  He opened up a charity hospital with his own wealth.

I mean, if you like Canada's health care system, great!  Live in Canada.  But we (majority of Americans) don't.

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Health care cannot be a right by any stretch whatsoever.  You could maybe argue that the government has a duty to provide health care, but it's not a right.  A right is a freedom of action, ie, speech, life, protection; they're not goods, commodities, or services.  For this reason, I strongly disagree with people who claim they have a right to health care.  And people like Nancy Pelosi, who claim the passage of the bill is the equivalent to the civil rights acts are despicable.