Author Topic: Stuff that peels your potatoes with paring knives of ANGER.  (Read 788601 times)

Bobbias

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Re: Stuff that peels your potatoes with paring knives of ANGER.
« Reply #525 on: February 11, 2008, 10:09:46 AM »
That could be the problem, but I'd have to leave out the "YOU ARE ALL SHITHEADS AND I HATE EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU." Not all the people who can't type are actually morons, and if I said that, I'd basically have nobody to talk to on there. :/

I also made a point to tell them that any personal attacks wouldn't be tolerated and asked them to kindly Shut The Fuck Up
« Last Edit: February 11, 2008, 10:17:43 AM by Bobbias »
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Spectere

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Re: Stuff that peels your potatoes with paring knives of ANGER.
« Reply #526 on: February 11, 2008, 04:49:18 PM »
That could be the problem, but I'd have to leave out the "YOU ARE ALL SHITHEADS AND I HATE EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU." Not all the people who can't type are actually morons, and if I said that, I'd basically have nobody to talk to on there. :/

Bah, way to not be adventurous. ;P
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Bobbias

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Re: Stuff that peels your potatoes with paring knives of ANGER.
« Reply #527 on: February 12, 2008, 02:34:13 AM »
Well, things have resolved themselves there, the thread was locked, and one person in particular responded very maturely to my post, so I thanked him. I admitted that he knew more grammar than I did, and said I'd be sure to try to learn from all the mistakes he pointed out in my post. So things have pretty much died out there, and I've got one person who may or may not become a friend thanks to the fact that he was about the only person to actually make a mature post in response to my rant.
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Re: Stuff that peels your potatoes with paring knives of ANGER.
« Reply #528 on: February 12, 2008, 02:59:23 AM »
I hate hate HATE it when people try to use the fact that they have certifications to try and mask the fact that they don't know jack shit.  There's a prime example from tonight in class.  I was setting up a wireless network for our pieces of equipment to talk and was running into issues:

Dumbass: Ping tests don't work for wireless.  You can have the wrong WEP key and still ping clients.  It's like if someone's speaking Spanish and you only know English; you can see them talking but you don't know what they're saying.
Me: *blink blink* No, with a shared key system, you have to have the right key to even associate with access points.  Even with open system authentication, all data gets encrypted, so even though you might be able to connect a ping still wouldn't go through.
Dumbass: Well, I only have XXX certification, so I obviously don't know what I'm talking about.
Me: I've noticed.

It's rare that I respond to sarcasm with sarcasm because I don't go out of my way to start fights, but this is one of those cases where I simply couldn't help myself.  When you figure that this very person has accused other people of being arrogant, this has more than a little dash of irony, especially considering he was completely, irrefutably wrong.  If I really wanted to blow a lot of money I could probably have several MCSE certs just from experience alone with a bit of freshening up, not to mention Cisco CCNA and A+ certifications without a whole lot of work.  Tonight is proof that I probably wouldn't even need to crack open a book to get it.  If that moron doesn't know that basic of a concept and he has a certification, I can sure as hell get one if I wanted to.

Is it any wonder this idiot isn't in the networking field?

Oh, also, proof that I'm right: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wired_Equivalent_Privacy#Authentication

Quote
In Open System authentication, the WLAN client need not provide its credentials to the Access Point during authentication. Thus, any client, regardless of its WEP keys, can authenticate itself with the Access Point and then attempt to associate. In effect, no authentication (in the true sense of the term) occurs. After the authentication and association, WEP can be used for encrypting the data frames. At this point, the client needs to have the right keys.

In Shared Key authentication, WEP is used for authentication. A four-way challenge-response handshake is used:

I) The client station sends an authentication request to the Access Point.

II) The Access Point sends back a clear-text challenge.

III) The client has to encrypt the challenge text using the configured WEP key, and send it back in another authentication request.

IV) The Access Point decrypts the material, and compares it with the clear-text it had sent. Depending on the success of this comparison, the Access Point sends back a positive or negative response. After the authentication and association, WEP can be used for encrypting the data frames.
I'm seriously thinking about printing that out and having him read it when I get into class just because it pisses me off when people do that shit.

I put up with this one dumbass white trash slut when I went to ITT that did the same fucking thing.  She kept going on and on about how she was MCSE certified for Windows 2003 Server, yadda yadda, but when it came to practice, GUESS WHO SHE ASKED ABOUT EVERY LITTLE THING.  She knew absolutely nothing about Windows Server.

Jesus, I fucking hate people sometimes.
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Bobbias

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Re: Stuff that peels your potatoes with paring knives of ANGER.
« Reply #529 on: February 12, 2008, 03:12:45 AM »
Yeah, that is the sort of shit that makes me wish people just had a test they needed to pass when they went to work at a job that required that sort of knowledge. Then certifications wouldn't matter, because you'd need to actually do well on the test, instead of simply show them some paper you managed to get by cramming all the shit in your head 2 hours before the test and promptly forgetting it. Sure, people might do that then, but all they need to do is put a clause in saying "we can fire you if we think you know jack shit."

It's still not a perfect system, but it might work better than simply giving a certification and thinking that that little piece of paper means they actually know something. That is why I don't study for tests. I think that studying skews your true results, and creates a false score higher than you deserve, because you're going to forget most of what you just crammed for the test anyway. I figure if I can go into a test without having spent 1 second studying and do as well or better than people who spent hours, that speaks a lot about my retention, and my understanding of the problems. I think that comparing my mark to the inflated marks of others just serves to prove that I am smart.

Of course, that's how it would work in a world where it mattered how much you actually knew. At this point, as long as you get X score, the teachers don't care how you got there, and that is a problem

Ok, I'm gonna cut myself off here, because this is turning into yet another late night rant.
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Spectere

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Re: Stuff that peels your potatoes with paring knives of ANGER.
« Reply #530 on: February 12, 2008, 04:46:47 AM »
Exactly.  Certifications are little more than expensive tests to see how well you can regurgitate information.  People flash them to compensate for their complete lack of knowledge or inability (or unwillingness) to actually get their hands dirty.  To elaborate further on this, I've looked into getting my CCNA and quickly found that most of the information on there isn't used often in the field.  For example, as far as routing protocols are concerned, OSPF and IS-IS are by far the most popular protocols used, with RIP probably still seeing heavy use.  From what I've heard, however, Cisco drills test-takers on their proprietary IGRP/EIGRP protocols, which are not nearly as common.  I've heard many CCNA certificate holders say that they've never run into that protocol in the field and I'm inclined to believe them.

Not to mention that it just winds up being a huge money soak for the companies.  As technology changes it's only natural that certifications should change with it.  However, expecting someone to throw down a hundred or two hundred dollars every other year to keep their certs up-to-date is insane, especially when they don't provide a firm test of competence.

Sure, if I were applying for IT jobs I'd probably look into getting a certification or two, but aside from making my resume look better I don't see much of a use for them.
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Bobbias

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Re: Stuff that peels your potatoes with paring knives of ANGER.
« Reply #531 on: February 12, 2008, 07:12:08 AM »
Really, the whole education system has turned into something where you get marks for regurgitating information, regardless of how well you actually know or understand it. If the work and tests were more geared towards actual knowledge and understanding of the problems at hand, I bet nearly 50% or more of classes right now would fail. Miserably. I've only met a coupe people at school who I think are actually intelligent, despite how many people get good marks. Half of the people who get good marks are simply good at memorizing things. If I were to have an in depth discussion about something and he underlying principles, I bet most of them would have no idea what I was talking about :/
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Re: Stuff that peels your potatoes with paring knives of ANGER.
« Reply #532 on: February 12, 2008, 09:23:15 AM »
Yeah, I agree.  Really, the only subjects that test one's capacity for critical thought are your math courses.

Science tends to require thought when it comes to hands-on work or the mathematics behind a certain thing, but a lot of that tends to be regurgitation.  I've always been a fan of the practical elements of computer science, in general, because it opens up an extremely wide variety of problems to solve, whether it be operating software, tweaking hardware, or writing code.  As for the theory behind it, it's generally pretty uninteresting or ties in so closely to the practical elements that I'd rather just do the hands-on work.

Really, when you think about it, what is the best way to learn how to use a program?  Listen to someone talk about it for five hours and never touch it?  Give me a break!  That's all those certification exams do, generally.  Now I heard that Microsoft has you actually perform the said steps for MCSE exams, but the problem with that is that it probably still limits you to set problems with a rigid way to go about solving them.  The most fun I've had getting my degree was when my LAN teacher said, "okay, set up a network with Windows XP Pro workstations, two Windows 2003 servers, one Linux server, three routers, and two switches.  Go!"

One class that can sort of go either way are your Language Arts classes.  I've been in ones that test you with multiple choice answer sheets and ones that ask you to write about certain things in your own words.  I tend to prefer the latter.

I was sort of unusual in high school because I actually enjoyed writing essays so long as they didn't have any stupid, arbitrary limits on them.  The one thing that I didn't enjoy were having to stick with the rigid writing structure that teachers enforced.  I generally write in two ways: (1) I prewrite using a stream of consciousness method, jotting down or typing whatever comes to mind, then go through it and write a proper essay based on that; or (2) I write the whole damn thing in one go then re-read it a few times, make corrections here and there, and turn it in.

All the way through middle and high school and into college I was stuck writing things the "proper" way, which simply didn't work for me, yet was enforced.  Something that I could have finished in a day was drug out through two or three weeks simply because we had to follow all of the steps: prewriting, main idea, introductory paragraph, rough draft #1, rough draft #2, final draft.

One time I literally wrote the entire paper on the day that it was assigned.  When it came time to turn in each of our "steps" I literally cut down the final draft into the pieces that I needed to turn in.  I didn't make a single change from day 1 all the way up until the due date and I pulled a 100% on it.

I'm still in disbelief that I still had to do the same exact thing in college.  You'd think that by that point they'd let the students do it the way that works for them, but no.  Ah well.  At least I'm done with all of that bullshit now.
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Bobbias

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Re: Stuff that peels your potatoes with paring knives of ANGER.
« Reply #533 on: February 12, 2008, 10:26:34 AM »
That sums things up pretty damn good.

I've always thought the "writing process" stuff that they forced you into was bullshit. I've never been all that good at essays, but that's due to a couple reasons: I'm not that good at expressing myself through written word, most of the stuff I had to work with was not an idea that I actually liked or wanted to do.

I'm sure there were a couple more reasons that came and went depending on the circumstances, but I wrote every single essay I've ever done in 1 run, except maybe the beginning paragraph. Usually it would take me about 2 hours. 1 hour of talking on MSN and occasionally writing something down, and 1 hour of writing stream of consciousness essay. I say that because I didn't do it in 2 phases like you described, but in 1. My subconscious mind was able to order things into a workable essay format, so I just wrote, start to finish, and made the occasional tweak.

Unfortunately, as I mentioned earlier, I'm not all that good at expressing my ideas when I have to write them down. I don't think in a straightforward way that most people do. I like to describe my thought patterns as in tangents. Most people work their way from the start to the finish of something in a straight line. I don't, I sort of spiral around it, eventually arriving at the goal. Thought patterns like this don't lend well to written communication. I work much better in an informal oral environment. When you have an actual discourse between people with regards to a subject, it allows you to revise your points and rethink things when presented with a response from the other party involved. However, you are not presented with that when you write something. The editing process gives us some semblance of input simulating an oral discourse, but fails to provide the same level of input, because it targets the words themselves, instead of the thoughts. I abandoned the editing system for a couple reasons: it only really edited from a grammatical standpoint I would lose my train of thought completely if I stopped working on it to let someone edit what I had; and when I was finished, I felt that it was as good as it was going to get, because most of my editing was done before I ever went to put the thought to words. Before I wrote a sentence, my subconscious mind would begin to form the sentence, and would catch itself if something felt wrong, or awkward, and anything that got through that self-editing process, could be changed right after I read it.

Anyway, I did much better on on-demand essays, because of the grading being different. I produced essays on about the same level whether I wrote them on-demand in class, or over a couple hours on my computer at home.

As for other classes, I think my favourite has to be the programming courses I went through. Sure, the teacher talked at the front of the class every now and then to try to explain things, but we usually had plenty of time in class to actually sit down and write code. I had a lot of fun there, and learned quite a bit from those classes (actually I already knew a good portion of what they taught in those classes, but they provided me with a way to make something that I could add on to and learn stuff beyond the scope of the class with.)

Unfortunately, the teacher I had for those classes barely knew anything beyond the scope of the class. We asked one time if it was possible to manipulate C++ pointers in a DLL file through visual basic, and he had NO idea what we were talking about..... That was kinda pathetic, really.

Anyway, I learned a lot of Java from the second year there. (I don't think I actually learned anything in the first year class, which was all in VB.)

I like what your teacher did there.. That must have been an interesting network.
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Re: Stuff that peels your potatoes with paring knives of ANGER.
« Reply #534 on: February 12, 2008, 10:40:01 AM »
C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER

but high school fucking sucks.

Bobbias

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Re: Stuff that peels your potatoes with paring knives of ANGER.
« Reply #535 on: February 12, 2008, 11:13:38 AM »
Yes, highschool does suck.

EDIT: jesus, this is my 13th post today. And I still only have 9.335 posts per day, lol.
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Re: Stuff that peels your potatoes with paring knives of ANGER.
« Reply #536 on: February 13, 2008, 03:10:56 AM »
Unfortunately, the teacher I had for those classes barely knew anything beyond the scope of the class. We asked one time if it was possible to manipulate C++ pointers in a DLL file through visual basic, and he had NO idea what we were talking about..... That was kinda pathetic, really.

I've found that most programming teachers don't actually know how to program.  It really bugs me.  I've only been in one programming class (Data Structures) where the teacher actually knew more about programming in a given language than I did.  It was the best programming class I'd ever been in for that reason alone.

As for your question, no, Visual Basic cannot manipulate pointers. :P

I like what your teacher did there.. That must have been an interesting network.

It was pretty nice.  I wound up doing all of the Linux and networking work since I was the only person who really understood Linux in the class (and that's after two Linux classes...pathetic, I know -- those classes were some of the biggest travesties I'd ever seen) and because of my ability to configure a bank of Cisco routers in five minutes flat (compared to 45+ minutes for the next fastest person...no joke).  I was basically the project leader, assigning everyone tasks and helping them out.  Most fun I'd had in class in a long time.
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Bobbias

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Re: Stuff that peels your potatoes with paring knives of ANGER.
« Reply #537 on: February 13, 2008, 05:10:58 AM »
Well, we figured the pointer thing out on our own, lol. I forget how it reacted when we tried to get it to pass the memory location to us, but I know it didn't work as expected. We could receive the information the pointer was pointing to, but we couldn't get it to tell us the memory location we were pointing to.

Wow, 5 minutes vs 45... that's kinda sad. I think I could set up a router I've never touched before in somewhere around 10 minutes, depending on how user friendly the interface is, and I know I can set my router up from factory default about 3-5 minutes, lol.
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Re: Stuff that peels your potatoes with paring knives of ANGER.
« Reply #538 on: February 13, 2008, 12:38:08 PM »
Yeah, VB isn't really a good language to choose if you want to directly manipulate memory.  It's generally pretty good at what it's made for, though -- rapid application development.

No offense, but with no experience it would probably take you quite a while to configure one Cisco router from scratch.  There is no friendly UI to speak of, just a command interface using a proprietary command interpreter (I think some of their gear uses Linux, but I've never seen it personally).  The main reason that it took me five minutes to configure three routers is because I used my time more efficiently.  I'd configure one router, dump the config, open it in a text editor, change the values, and just copy and paste the updated configurations into the other router.  Most people there could configure a single router in 10 minutes, but would then follow the error-prone task of typing everything in manually.  Blah.

For the record, here's how to just change the IP address (FYI, the command prompt is the host name followed by the mode that you're currently in):

Code: [Select]
Router>en
Router#conf t
Router(config)#int e0
Router(config-if)#ip addr 192.168.1.1 255.255.255.0
Router(config-if)#no shut
&LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface Ethernet0, changed state to up
Router(config-if)#end
Router#

The first command, "en," puts the prompt into privileged mode.  If there is a password set for it (THERE'D DAMN WELL BETTER BE) you'll be prompted for it.

"conf t," a shortcut for "configure terminal," tells the router to go into configuration mode, getting commands from the terminal.  This is what you'd use to configure it most of the time.

"int e0" is a shortcut for "interface Ethernet0."  There are numerous interfaces on Cisco routers; sometimes multiple banks of Ethernet ports (in which case they would be referred to as Ethernet0/0 -- bank/port).  There are also FastEthernet ports (100mbps), Serial ports, etc; it all depends on the router and what cards you have installed in them.

"ip addr 192.168.1.1 255.255.255.0" is fairly obvious -- it sets the IP to 192.168.1.1 with a subnet mask of 255.255.255.0.  The command itself is a shortcut for "ip address."

"no shut," a shortcut for "no shutdown," brings up the interface (sort of like "ifconfig interface up" in *nix).

"end" backs out of configuration mode, bringing you back into privileged mode.

Configuring Ethernet interfaces isn't hard at all.  Serial interfaces tend to require a bit more TLC, mainly because you have to configure each end differently.

The part that confuses most people in assignments like that are static routing tables.  That was another requirement of the assignment -- we needed to use them.  Setups using RIP and OSPF are practically automatic -- you tell the routers what to use and they work it out amongst each other.  When you configure a static table, you need to be fully aware of which devices can directly talk to each other as well and through what port.  I was able to grasp it without much of a problem but most of the people in my class had problems with it.  It's also one of those things where if you mess it up it can be a pain to debug, especially on larger setups; I typically got it right the first time.
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Bobbias

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Re: Stuff that peels your potatoes with paring knives of ANGER.
« Reply #539 on: February 13, 2008, 01:05:40 PM »
Well, aside from not knowing the commands themselves, I probably wouldn't have much trouble with setting one of those guys up. I understood a good portion of that, minus the "en" command, and it would have taken me a minute to figure out the "no shut" command, but I'm generally pretty good at learning that sort of stuff really quickly. I learned how to work linux in a console form in no time at all, coming from pretty much 0 experience in command line only situations. I did already know some DOS commands, and I knew that a couple (cd, among others) were aliased. If I have 2 of something to configure that I can use text files for, I likely would have done so myself (I've done that sort of thing on more than one occasion). The main advantage you have over me on those things is you've gone through the course and learned how to operate the console.

I wouldn't be surprised if they ran some sort of linux on those things though.

Static routing tables, however, might do me in on one of those with my 0 experience, lol. However, I probably wouldn't do bad for someone who's never touched one before. All I'd need for most things is quick access to a reference table on commands.

Oh, and what's the significance of using the "no shut" command in that instance? Is it quicker that way, or is there some other reason?
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