Author Topic: I got into an argument online...  (Read 18125 times)

Bobbias

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Re: I got into an argument online...
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2007, 05:32:45 AM »
I didn't claim to know everything, but I do claim to know a fair bit, since I was A) educated as catholic, and B) actually listened in class.

The jesus is god thing: My whole point with that was that yes, the church has a lot of good moral ideas, but the problem is not in the ideas they are supposed to follow, but in how the church decides to follow them. I do honestly think that in the current state the roman catholic church needs to reform itself before I would say that they are a good organization. The reformed catholic church, I respect, but since they are more or less just another branch from a large tree, it isn't the same as having the entire church with their beliefs. If the entire "tree" were to be reformed, then I would have a lot less bad things to say about them.

Sure, there are a lot of good people who make the church a decent organization, but the simple fact that power corrupts, personal ambitions affect actions of people in power, and politics affect those people with power giving them yet more reasons to twist the ideas of the bible to their will, is a huge problem, and in any hierarchy like the church, it is pretty much bound to happen.

I say this about every post I make, but I'm not trying to offend anyone with anything I say, which includes the "jesus had some good ideas" bit. I'm trying to show that regardless of my dislike for the church, I still think that many of the christian ideas are great ideas, and endorse anyone who believes in them. I just see no point in caring about whether jesus was god or not, because as far as I'm concerned, that shouldn't matter. Even if there was a god, and jesus was simply a prophet speaking ideas of his own that aren't divinely inspired, they are great ideas.

I'm not trying to say that jesus isn't god, or that he was, I'm looking past that point to the message he brought to us. It bothers me how shortsighted people can be when it comes to this. A great idea is a great idea no matter who's mouth it comes from. It doesn't matter who says it, as long as the message gets across.

I'd write more, but my sleep habits are totally messed, and I'm tired right now.

I did see something awesome in that thread:

Haha, yeah, it's a vbulletin and though I like the arcade feature, I hate the board. I'm just too used to SMF, lol. plus, I love the SMF "insert Quote" button, lol.
This is going in my sig. :)

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淫蟲

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Re: I got into an argument online...
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2007, 04:22:15 PM »
People like xXRiha-ChanXx are the reason I hate Christianity and other organized religions.  There are reasons I do not wish to go into though.

Bobbias

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Re: I got into an argument online...
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2007, 04:27:15 PM »
She isn't even a christian, she's muslim, lol. that's the truly sad part.
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Grey Knight

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Re: I got into an argument online...
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2007, 04:27:39 PM »
People try to politick?  Check.  Hence there exist people like myself who take a "search and destroy" attitude to that sort of thing inside the Church ;) (presumably including in the Catholic church, although there's a lot of inertia to overcome in there).  Just because things inevitably crop up doesn't mean we can't beat them down! I do like administering beatings >_>

You keep mentioning about "the" message Jesus brought, but there are actually two (at least).  One being "Okay guys, I've taken mortal form for a bit, and I'm going to die for you so you can get a bye-ball on screwing up"{*1}, and the other being the one you reference, that "And while I'm here, let's clear up a few misunderstandings about how to carry on; because srsly guys, what in the name of Me".  I don't know that it's a case of "looking past" one to the other, they're both pretty highly important, but it's interesting to note that He commented on a facet of the subject:

Quote from: Matt 22:37-40
Jesus said unto him, "'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.'  This is the first and great commandment.  And the second is like unto it, 'Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.'  On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

The specified ranking of those two commandments probably conflicts with a humanist view of the world (in fact, it more-or-less definitely does), but Christianity is all about God first, and only incidentally about us :).


Anyway, I only came online to check my email, I'm supposed to be doing other stuff.  I need to spend less time dashing about, is my considered opinion. :o  Once again I beg forgiveness for any bad writing. :)

{*1} Disclaimer: GreyKnight doesn't actually use cool language like this in real life, so if any of the metaphors are a bit strained, that's why

Zakamiro

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Re: I got into an argument online...
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2007, 05:46:35 PM »
I'm not even going to get fired up. I have a fire hotter than the PITS OF MORDOR when it comes to religion, and somebody will probably take it to heart, then leave the forum.


We pressed on. Shortly afterwards, we arrived in a poisonous, post-apocalyptic hell - a sprawling, toxic dumping ground stretching for a mile or two. This is the final resting place for your old TV, computer or mobile phone.

Alice

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Re: I got into an argument online...
« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2007, 05:55:07 PM »
somebody will probably take it to heart, then leave the forum.
lawl

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Re: I got into an argument online...
« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2007, 06:49:13 PM »
xXRiha-ChanXx

i stopped reading right there, don't take people with names like that seriously.

Bobbias

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Re: I got into an argument online...
« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2007, 11:26:50 PM »
I try not to, lol.

Yes, jesus's other message was a renewal of the teaching to love god, but what I was pointing out was the fact that I believe that nearly everything he said does not conflict with my views of morality, and are in fact great messages. Respect, love, and happiness are what everyone wants, and what everyone needs to give, but coming from a unique point of view, I disregard the fact that jesus was supposedly god in human form, because since there is no way to prove things one way or another, it's a moot point.

What does loving god mean? To love god is to give yourself to his commandments, which were given to us by jesus, and the ten commandments (although almost all of the old testament should NEVER be taken literally.) As far as I'm concerned, it's perfectly fine to believe in god, whether it's a personal god, the christian god, allah, yhwh, or any other god. If you need something that you can believe in blindly, then god is probably the best choice, but it's the people who either force their religion on others (jehova's witness and all the other evangelical churches anyone?) and the people who believe in the whole "if you do not believe, you are going to burn in hell" stuff who bug me most.

Sometimes I get sick of people lecturing me on jesus and such (a friend of mine in high school was one of those extremely religious people, but she was protestant, which I believe is better than roman catholic in most of their beliefs), but it's perfectly fine for those people to believe it, as long as it doesn't get in the way of living your life.

For instance, I am pro choice about nearly everything (I do draw a line on some things, there are times that things need to be heavily regulated).  I am pro choice on abortion, voluntary euthanasia, and other subjects like that, because I believe that regardless of the moral circumstances, a person has the right to chose. A foetus is a potential human to me, and even though you are killing a person, taking away their future, they never had it to begin with. Yes, I am bothered by abortion, I know how it is performed, and it disgusts me, but even though it bothers me, this is a free country, and stuff like this should not be controlled by religion. Canada and the US are secular societies, and their laws do not need to coincide with the church, and even if I think something is morally wrong, does not mean that I am right, nor does it mean that they do not have the right to do something even though I believe it's wrong. I try to apply this ideal to every situation, though there are times where I think that things must be regulated.

To me, my "religious" ideas, and my political ideas are very close in nature, because in essence, they both deal with morality. I know this is becoming an essay, but I like being able to get this out someplace where I can express myself and expect criticism, not personal attacks. Every time someone criticizes my views, it allows me to look at what I have said, amend anything that I don't believe came out right, and review what I believe. I may say something differently, or I may change what I said altogether because of some flaw that you have pointed out. Sometimes I need criticism to properly help me express every facet of my views, and it's only in a mature place that I can actually do that, so I will thank you guys for not making a mockery of this thread, and for providing me with criticism, because I'm not perfect, I make mistakes, and I can' always express myself properly.

I know this seems poorly constructed as far as an "essay" is concerned, but this is the exact order that these ideas came up, and that's how I type. I have a hard time completely separating my ideas at times, because they just flow in my head...
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MortifiedocAlot

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Re: I got into an argument online...
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2007, 12:10:20 AM »
lawl

He cam back  ;D.

xXRiha-ChanXx

i stopped reading right there, don't take people with names like that seriously.

I should have too. Also I agree with bewbies that the church abuses it's power and has too much power in todays world (at least the catholic church). Also religious debates never ever ever end well, or go anywhere positive.


Bobbias

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Re: I got into an argument online...
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2007, 01:00:11 AM »
Not necessarily, I've had a number of decent debates in person, and you guys have proven that you can still talk about the subject without making personal attacks and turning it into a fight.

People need to stop thinking that religion is such a taboo subject to argue about. They simply need to be more mature about it. People need to be able to look at their beliefs and see the faults and such without becoming angry or defensive. Instead, either actively defend your position, or admit that there is a problem. I will agree that the major fault of my belief is that there's nothing you can rely on, no simply explanation for why things happen, no concrete thing to believe in in times of need. You can probably point out a number of things I can't think of, and if I agree that they're faults, I'll say so.
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Spectere

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Re: I got into an argument online...
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2007, 01:21:18 AM »
Not necessarily, I've had a number of decent debates in person, and you guys have proven that you can still talk about the subject without making personal attacks and turning it into a fight.

stfu ur stupid <3
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Zakamiro

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Re: I got into an argument online...
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2007, 02:57:38 AM »
stfu ur stupid <3

NO U



(also why does bbcode not have to follow html? <img> doesn't use </img>, yet [img] insists on using [/img]. Why can't we use [img=URL] ? oh well. )
« Last Edit: September 25, 2007, 03:03:37 AM by Zakamiro »


We pressed on. Shortly afterwards, we arrived in a poisonous, post-apocalyptic hell - a sprawling, toxic dumping ground stretching for a mile or two. This is the final resting place for your old TV, computer or mobile phone.

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Re: I got into an argument online...
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2007, 03:43:49 AM »
Hahaha, god I love that picture.

(also why does bbcode not have to follow html? <img> doesn't use </img>, yet [img] insists on using [/img]. Why can't we use [img=URL] ? oh well. )

I do recall an obscure variation of BBcode that used [img=URL]...I don't remember which software did it like that, though.
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Bobbias

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Re: I got into an argument online...
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2007, 04:13:19 AM »
Yes, [img] [ /img] always did bother me :/
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Alice

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Re: I got into an argument online...
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2007, 12:39:04 AM »