Author Topic: The Music Discussion Thread (No Flaming!)  (Read 217529 times)

Bobbias

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Re: The Music Discussion Thread (No Flaming!)
« Reply #240 on: May 29, 2008, 08:17:27 AM »
I have a dualist approach to genres and music.

The way I see it, genres are only there to help describe the general aspects of the sound of a band, mostly for the benefit of those who do not know what the band sounds like. It's easier to say "well, Kalmah is essentially Gothenberg metal influenced by thrash with harsh vocals." then "Kalmah sounds like vocals from band x, guitar that's fast, like band y, with riffs and leads sounding like bands z and w."

I use genres because I believe that you can classify many aspects of a band's sound, making it easier to communicate the abstract aspects, such as how the riffs are written, how the vocals sound, how the guitar sounds, how the leads sound, how the drumming is, etc. etc. etc.than manually describing each of them. It also tends to give people a better mental idea of how they sound than manually describing it.

I also see genres as mutable, and able to modify eachother. Like saying band X combines Brutal Death Metal with Power Metal type leads, and a combination of both Power Metal and Brutal Death Metal vocals. If they are predominantly Brutal Death Metal that incorporates parts of Power Metal, then they would be classified as Brutal Death Metal influenced by Power metal, etc.

Take the example of Electrogrind. Electrogrind is a new type of Grindcore that was created by taking Grindcore music and adding in some electronic music sections and such into the mix. It is much closer to Grindcore, so it would never be accepted as being considered a purely electronic genre, it's a fusion genre that originated with Grindcore and expanded the Grindcore sound to include electronic sounds as well. (listen to anything by Genghis Tron for an example of Electrogrind.)

But the second aspect of my view on genres is this: I don't want anyone let genres get in the way of listening to music. I'm guilty of it at times. But I try not to.
I will listen to pretty much anything once, to see if I enjoy it. Example: I always go on huge rants about how pop music blows enormous chunks. However, I like quite a bit of music by Lily Allen, Christina Agulera, Feist (although she's kinda indie pop) and a couple others. The part that makes me hate so much pop is the fact that for the most part, the music is designed not with music itself in mind, but with how well it will sell in mind. That paradigm generally leads to music that is not good sounding to me, and sounds too plain, and overproduced. I prefer bands/artists who write their music for the creative reasons, and not simply money. They don't care if it sells well or not, and they're just doing it for their own reasons. Black Metal is an extreme example of that: They go out of their way to make their music sound like ass, to be obscure, and to do whatever they fuck they want (burning churches and such). Sure, I still hate some Black Metal, but at least I can respect them for writing music for themselves.

I'd go into an even longer rant, but I'm fucking dead tired. disregard any typos or shit in here. I just worked 8 hours and I've only had 1 hour sleep or between now and 11 PM 2 nights ago, so I fucking need to sleep.
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vladgd

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Re: The Music Discussion Thread (No Flaming!)
« Reply #241 on: May 29, 2008, 12:26:33 PM »
genres help, but when it gets TOO SPECIFIC is when it gets retarded.

i mean, i have no problems with basic genres like "drum and bass" "gabber" "old school hip hop"

when it gets to say "FORKTRONICA" and this may not count but its a genre so retarded it does count "SPEEDBASS" thats just crossing the line

but im not going out of my way to "properly" label a specific piece of music i heard.  if it sounds to me like hardstyle, ill fucking call it hardstyle.  which is why im not hard on people going "ohh yea thats the techno song i heard"  because they don't fucking care, they like the music, whats it matter if they don't know EXACTLY WHAT IT IS. 
« Last Edit: May 29, 2008, 12:28:04 PM by vladgd »

Spectere

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Re: The Music Discussion Thread (No Flaming!)
« Reply #242 on: May 29, 2008, 04:57:18 PM »
genres help, but when it gets TOO SPECIFIC is when it gets retarded.

[...]

but im not going out of my way to "properly" label a specific piece of music i heard.  if it sounds to me like hardstyle, ill fucking call it hardstyle.  which is why im not hard on people going "ohh yea thats the techno song i heard"  because they don't fucking care, they like the music, whats it matter if they don't know EXACTLY WHAT IT IS. 

This man speaks the truth.  In fact, I think he deserves a custom title yes i know you can set them yourself SHUT UP!
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vladgd

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Re: The Music Discussion Thread (No Flaming!)
« Reply #243 on: May 29, 2008, 06:22:07 PM »
yes i know you can set them yourself SHUT UP

but when you do it, its SPECIAL!

Bobbias

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Re: The Music Discussion Thread (No Flaming!)
« Reply #244 on: May 29, 2008, 06:43:53 PM »
The thing that bothers me is that "Techno" is NOT THE FUCKING OVERALL LABEL TO CALL ELECTRONIC FUCKING MUSIC!

Do you call Metal Rock because that's what it came from? No, if you did, anyone who listens to metal would call you a fucking retard. Do you call Rock Country, or Blues, because that's where IT came from? No, you'd get called retarded again. Then don't call Electronic Music/EDM(The 2 Accepted global terms!) Techno. It's common fucking sense here, Trance != Techno. It came from it, Techno is what Trance evolved from, but Just like Metal != Rock, and Rock != Blues or Country, the same holds true with Electronic Music.

If someone called Nujabes rap, they would also deserve to be called a Retard, because he CLEARLY does NOT rap. He produces Hip-hop music.

If you're going to use a genre name to describe something, USE THE RIGHT FUCKING NAME.
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Sqthreer!

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Re: The Music Discussion Thread (No Flaming!)
« Reply #245 on: May 29, 2008, 07:38:46 PM »
To reiterate what vlad said, people don't give a damn about the genre. That's why they don't use the right one. There's no need to take it personal when someone doesn't study music genres and calls Squarepusher "techno" or whatever. They simply do not know, and probably don't really want to know. They're not stupid, they're uneducated, which is perfectly fine.
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Zakamiro

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Re: The Music Discussion Thread (No Flaming!)
« Reply #246 on: May 29, 2008, 07:41:16 PM »
I agree with vlad, genre specifics is kinda meh. they're there so you and others know wtf kind of music it is, not to classify it. As much as I kinda don't like genres, they're kinda essential (like boobies pointed out earlier), so damned if ya do, damned if ya don't. For me, being able to put Artist X into Genre Y only means they just aren't being creative. rofl. but yeah oh well.

and no, we can't make our own custom titles. (or at least I can't)


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Ulti

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Re: The Music Discussion Thread (No Flaming!)
« Reply #247 on: May 30, 2008, 04:47:58 AM »
Time to derail a perfectly good discussion.

I downloaded that Drumcorps band Bobbias mentioned like, pages ago. My mind was blown, that is a ridiculously awesome group. Furthermore, Genghis Tron is awesome as well.

Bobbias

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Re: The Music Discussion Thread (No Flaming!)
« Reply #248 on: May 30, 2008, 06:12:44 AM »
Nice to see that someone else appreciates stuff like Genghis Tron.

My whole point is that if you're listening to music, and you call it Techno when it is definitely not, that is when I get more pissed off. If you're listening to it, and like it, and are a normal person (IE. one who does use genres in normal ways, such as differentiating heavy metal from death metal, or rock from country) you should at least learn what genre that song IS. Of course, it doesn't help when everything remotely electronic on the internet is labeled as Techno by everyone except the people who are insanely into EDM.

The whole aspect is that Techno is the not the same as Metal or Country, or Jazz, oar any of that. There are very highly defined limits as to what actual Techno is, and the blanket term for electronic music is, well, EDM or Electronic Music, NOT Techno.

The part that bothers me is that they are not using the right blanket term, and are calling music that definitely is not Techno, Techno.

It's like saying Cannibal Corpse is rock, just because if you trace metal back, it eventually comes back to Rock. It's just plain fucking wrong. Metal genres are not rock, just the same as the fact that not all Electronic Music genres are Techno.

Fuck, if you're going to call any type of music they make nowdays Techno, call House that, because House is the closest relative to Techno, but Trance, DnB/Jungle, and all the other types of EDM are NOT Techno.

And frankly, it doesn't take much of a brain to realize that EDM != Techno, and to make the decision to call it Electronic music.
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Spectere

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Re: The Music Discussion Thread (No Flaming!)
« Reply #249 on: May 30, 2008, 03:00:36 PM »
I'll be sure to study Ishkur's guide prior to talking to you about music, then.  I don't want you to get upset, after all. ;)
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vladgd

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Re: The Music Discussion Thread (No Flaming!)
« Reply #250 on: May 30, 2008, 03:03:20 PM »
jurassic 5 is techno

but uhh

mu-ziq- burnt sienna

HELLA GOOD
« Last Edit: May 30, 2008, 03:10:09 PM by vladgd »

Bobbias

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Re: The Music Discussion Thread (No Flaming!)
« Reply #251 on: May 30, 2008, 03:09:38 PM »
I'll be sure to study Ishkur's guide prior to talking to you about music, then.  I don't want you to get upset, after all. ;)
Heh, Ishkur's guide is actually a pretty good representation of many genres. Except the ones he just hates on, the samples give you a good idea of what the genre is, but only barely. lol.

Then again, Ishkur's guide gets pretty ridiculous at times. But for the most part, it's damn useful.
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Spectere

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Re: The Music Discussion Thread (No Flaming!)
« Reply #252 on: May 30, 2008, 03:24:01 PM »
His comments are entertaining and the music samples are nice.  I definitely don't go there to learn about genres.  I don't want my head to asplode, after all. :P

It's a fun way to see how electronic music evolved over the past 60 years.
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Bobbias

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Re: The Music Discussion Thread (No Flaming!)
« Reply #253 on: May 30, 2008, 03:49:58 PM »
That's true, the one big thing that you get from the whole thing is how the music evolved. I love how he organized it, showing all the relationships from genre to genre. I don't mind people being at least somewhat vague about things (like saying something house when it's some random sub-genre), but what bugs me the most is people using Techno as the blanket term when it isn't. I hate seeing stuff like "song X (techno remix)" when I don't think I've ever once heard a remix of a song that is actually Techno. 99% of those remixes are some form of trance, probably falling somewhere between Arena Trance, and Epic Trance.
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Ulti

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Re: The Music Discussion Thread (No Flaming!)
« Reply #254 on: May 30, 2008, 05:21:39 PM »
Vlad, it's true, that song is awesome. Mu-ziq is preposterously underrated.