Author Topic: PHP Assistance Required  (Read 15303 times)

Bobbias

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Re: PHP Assistance Required
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2008, 04:15:25 AM »
There are stupid nerds. Just look at the insane linux fanboys who simply believe linux > windows. period. As much as I like linux for some reasons, I hate it because it never seems to work for me. I encounter nearly every problem I CAN encounter when working with linux. That OS is NOT userfriendly. I don't care what anyone else says.

Anyway, yeah, we're nerdier. You can also be smart and still not be a nerd. The way I see it, my curiosity and willingness to try to learn as much as I can about everything makes me a nerd. Most people would find a language they like and stick with it, and not bother to learn others, where I'll try everything, just to try it, and to have programmed in it.
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Spectere

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Re: PHP Assistance Required
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2008, 06:45:55 PM »
That OS is NOT userfriendly. I don't care what anyone else says.

It's not that it isn't more or less user-friendly.  The difference between Linux and Windows is that most distros expose more of the internals of Linux to its users than Windows would.

Before you dismiss Linux as being user-unfriendly, look at the number of Ubuntu users who don't know what the command line looks like.  Linux is at the point now where people can use it without having to tinker.  Granted, it's still at an early usable state, but things have only been improving.

Most people would find a language they like and stick with it, and not bother to learn others, where I'll try everything, just to try it, and to have programmed in it.

I try to maintain a decent amount of language exposure.  It helps in the long run because then I can pick the tool that's most suited for the job.  For instance, if I want to write a quick GUI application that formats input from a text file, I'm sure as hell not going to spend extra time getting a C version working -- I'm going to choose VB.NET (or are they calling it VB 2005 now?  I dunno).

The real problem with nerds is that so many of them have dangerous fanboyish tendencies.  I mean, I give Apple a hard time, but I really don't mind them all that much.  OS X is a fine OS, it's just not what I prefer to use most of the time (and, really, it is extremely overrated).  There are some people that actually believe that, for instance, Mac OS X is clearly superior to Linux and Windows.  In reality, all operating systems suck, some just suck a little bit more.  Every system has its pros and cons.
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Bobbias

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Re: PHP Assistance Required
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2008, 07:15:59 PM »
Quite true. I bitch about windows, yet, I still use it as my main OS. I bitch about linux for blowing up all the time, but it's mostly my fault for not knowing jack before I try something :P
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Sqthreer!

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Re: PHP Assistance Required
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2008, 03:15:48 AM »
I tried out Ubuntu, the one you can just boot from a disk, for about ten minutes before never using it again. I didn't hate it, it was just way too boring. I'm a freeware junkie, and there are just so fewer cool applications to be found to make Ubuntu even remotely as comfortable as Windows.
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Bobbias

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Re: PHP Assistance Required
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2008, 04:21:09 PM »
Fewer free programs for linux? Fewer total, yes, but comparing them to the number of not-so-freeware windows programs shows that linux has WAY more free programs in general. Hell, I don't remember the last time I came across a program for linux that WASN'T free.

With linux, you could run a full fledges web server that only cost as much as the server and internet connection.

Yes, it takes a little getting used to, but I actually prefer some of the linux desktops to windows. They have WAY more customization, the multi-desktop system kicks royal ass, etc.

Albeit, I've never tried a live Ubuntu CD, but still.

Well, to each, his own, I guess.
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Sqthreer!

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Re: PHP Assistance Required
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2008, 12:49:02 AM »
No I'm not saying the ratio of free to costly software is worse on Linux, I'm saying the quantity of freeware is much more varied and bountiful for Windows. I mean, just take a look at Shellcity.net, Filehippo.com, Softpedia.com, Download.com, etc... You can find twenty different programs that all have the same basic function, and I like that because it allows me to pick the best of them. It's like this: would you rather have a choice of twenty of your favorite types of pie*, all cooked a little differently, and some way better than others, or be stuck with one that may or may not meet your standards of pie satisfaction, but you have to eat it anyway because that's all the lazy pastry chef made?

This is not to say that Linux doesn't have good software, and I bet there are some much better alternatives to Windows software that are only on Linux. It's just overall, I'm a man of selection, so I favor the dominant operating system with a much larger software development population backing it up. But imagine the wonders that would emerge if Windows ever miraculously became open-source :O

And a multi-desktop environment doesn't really appeal to me, either :/ I don't even use the Windows desktop except to keep my recycle bin there in case some useless shortcut shows up there with a new installation. I use a program called Launchy to access all my programs, and everything else I have neatly organized in My Documents :P

But like you said, to each his own :]

*By the way, wtf happened to flypie???
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Bobbias

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Re: PHP Assistance Required
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2008, 09:25:59 AM »
Multi-desktop doesn't refer to icons. It refers to the ability to have windows own in one desktop and then switch to another and have a completely different window setup. You can have your torrent program open fullscreen in 1, your media player in another, and say, a textfile you're referring to every so often in another while your main programs can be open on your main desktop, and you can switch between those views with the click of the mouse.

While I understand your point about choice, I still say that in some cases, linux is instant win compared to windows. I mean, since when did windows come packaged with it's own SMTP server? I'll bet that my linux system on my My Book can do more things with the programs installed on it than my window install can do with 300+ GB of programs, data, etc. on it. Plus, wget is awesome.

Linux has freeware for EVERYTHING. They don't have a huge selection because most of the software does what it's supposed to well, right off the bat. I'd much rather use say, sendmail, rather than have to sift through 200 different craptacular freeware windows programs which all seem to fail for one reason or another. In my experience, most freeware windows programs suck ass. Either they're too simple, they were written in VB, and thus suck ass all around, or they are severely limited and only do the simplest of things. Practically every single program for linux is freeware, and also happens to do it's job well. And there's no shortage for select on linux either. I've never seen a person complain about there not being enough programs for linux.

the main reason that there are quite a few good linux programs is that there are a lot of computer programmers who use linux, and program for it, whereas when you look at windows programs, there are a lot of shitty programmers using things like VB and crap making crap freeware programs. I can't count how many times I've downloaded a freeware program only to throw it out like 5 minutes later because it sucks so much, but I've never done that once on a linux system.

Also, package managers kick some serious ass. I absolutely LOVE package managers in linux. They make things SO much easier than windows. The only time there's a problem is when they fail to get all the dependencies and such.

In short: Quantity =! Quality
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Sqthreer!

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Re: PHP Assistance Required
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2008, 04:10:56 PM »
Well even so, I never have more than a few windows open, and I'm perfectly happy with Alt+Tab :P

I know I can't talk like I know my shit about Linux since I've used it for no more than twenty minutes in my life, but the stuff like SMTP or wget and the fact that it's open-source and whatnot doesn't directly appeal to me. That's only because I'm not awesome with computers, nor do I plan to be. In fact, I don't even know what SMTP is or what it does for me XD (by the way I don't really need to know, heh)

I bet Linux has some pretty sweet stuff, and I have seen a few cool things, but I think I would still feel limited. I'm the kind of person who's always switching to the next and better software, even if it's just for a few slight conveniences. I mean, I can't remember how many times I've switched around IM clients. And of course this is all just me, but I don't like being limited with my software. Even if the program gets the job done, I always think, how could it be better? I don't even use Windows Explorer because it's just not extensive enough. Instead I use xplorer^2 which is amazingly more useful. And that's not the only file exploring program I've tried out, either.

Also, what the software is made with doesn't really matter to me unless it has some very obvious downsides. And by obvious downsides, I mean ones that are apparent to someone who doesn't touch programming in the least. You're right though, most freeware applications for Windows are pieces of shit, and I wouldn't doubt that the ratio of good to bad programs is far better on Linux, but that's still extremely subjective. I know EXACTLY what you're talking about when you say you almost immediately toss out a new program after trying it out for a couple minutes, hah. But that's the fun of it, for me. I like to know which programs do what and how well, which have potential to be good, which ones I can recommend to people for certain situations, etc.

What it comes down to is that I'm almost never satisfied with what I've got, and need room for changing and adapting to new things constantly. This spreads into my real life too, which is most unfortunate, but that's a whole different irritating story.

Who knows, the same thing might apply to a time later when I get tired of Windows and switch to Linux for a few months, but would probably ultimately go back.

That actually makes me want to give Ubuntu another try... I've always been curious as to what I'm missing out on, I will admit; I just could never see myself as a devout Linux user :/
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Bobbias

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Re: PHP Assistance Required
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2008, 01:33:58 AM »
Well, because of all the issues I've had with getting linux on my computer, I doubt I could ever be a devout linux user either. I can't think of dumping windows right off the bat. There are too many things that don't wok on linux, and I don't eel like running WINE all that often. I understand what you mean about wanting things newer and better, I'm always thinking of things they could do to improve how something works. It stems partly from my coding experience, but still, I'd still think the same way without any experience. I approach everything by trying to find the best program without having to sift through 2 million pieces of shit.

For me, every program I use needs to have a trillion options, and they need to be out in the open. I like being able to change all the behavior and such in a program, even if I never use it. That's one thing I love about linux, it's EXTREMELY customizable. You can make it act any way you want it to. It can do as much or more than windows can without needing anything extra, since half the good programs for it are already packaged, or readily available with a couple keystrokes/mouse clicks in a package manager. I mean, no more manually tracking down downloads, and manually installing it. Package managers automate even the simple task of installing software, as long as it's available to the package manager (and trust me, those things have practically everything.)

I also like learning. I'm constantly looking for more things to learn about and possibly use on my computer. I like things that can work their way around limitations of the system to do things it's not meant to and such.

I use windows explorer because I've never needed anything better. I'm checking out xplorer^2 right now, though, since it seems like a useful program.

If you've read this far, you can learn a bit about SMTP and wget. wget is a http downloader for linux and windows. You pass it a file, and it downloads it. great program because it's friggin small, has resume capabilities and such. it's all command line, but oh well, it works really well. SMTP is outgoing email. An SMTP server is what sends emails.
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Ulti

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Re: PHP Assistance Required
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2008, 01:06:06 PM »
As a side note, I'm taking a linux class this quarter, so fully expect me to harass you guys for help.

Spectere

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Re: PHP Assistance Required
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2008, 02:52:42 PM »
oh dear

If your Linux "classes" are anything like the ones I took, I wouldn't worry too much. :P  Let's just say, I learned more doing my own thing in those classes than I would have learned if I'd have listened to the teacher.  Even if I knew very little about Linux when I walked in I would have probably walked out knowing less somehow.  It was bad.
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Ulti

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Re: PHP Assistance Required
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2008, 03:02:41 PM »
Well, I know we learn how to install and configure it, but that's about it. If I need help, I'll ask, don't worry >:V

Bobbias

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Re: PHP Assistance Required
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2008, 03:53:11 PM »
Lmao, yeah, most introductory courses they offer for something like linus will be like my grade 9 computer course. Fucking useless unless you don't even know where the power buttons is, or what a fucking Word Processor is.
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Sqthreer!

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Re: PHP Assistance Required
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2008, 05:29:13 PM »
what is a wordd prooceseer???

P.S. I guess I knew what SMTP was but forgot somehow. I mean, I know what it's for, but not what it does or how or why or who or when or what, you know?
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Bobbias

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Re: PHP Assistance Required
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2008, 05:36:21 PM »
Well, the program is sendmail, but yeah. You can send emails through telnet if you feel like it, just like you can make HTTP requests through telnet. It's all text that gets sent, unless you're making a request for images or something.
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