Author Topic: Broadband 2.0  (Read 6122 times)

Zakamiro

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Broadband 2.0
« on: April 28, 2008, 12:32:53 AM »


We pressed on. Shortly afterwards, we arrived in a poisonous, post-apocalyptic hell - a sprawling, toxic dumping ground stretching for a mile or two. This is the final resting place for your old TV, computer or mobile phone.

Bobbias

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Re: Broadband 2.0
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2008, 01:03:43 AM »
Well, we've already started discussion on FiOS and such. I'm not surpised in the least about this "broadband 2.0" stuff. In fact, I'm surprised and saddened that it's taking so long for us to get high speed connections like this. I mean, we can get 100 Mbit connections at home with cheap-ass Ethernet (cat5e, or whatever you want to call it) cable, and yet the internet is barely able to supply us with connections above 3 mbits or so on average. Sure, large data centers and such get fiber optics, and yet, it's taken us this long to start the FiOS service. I remember a couple years ago hearing about companies developing a way to send 50 and 100 mbits/s over regular old telephone wire. I remember hearing something like that the infrastructure in europe can support something like 20 mbit connections relatively easily, and yet up here in the boonies, we've got some places unable to even get anything other than a 56k modem connected to the internet. It's rather pathetic.

The US and Canada are large countries, so I can understand that it'll cost us a lot more to upgrade our infrastructures to support higher speed connections, but at the same time, there are technologies out there able to use regular old phone lines at a lot faster rates than we are now.

I'm happy it's finally becoming a reality though, I've always wondered how long it would take before we had an affordable home service for fiber optic lines and stuff. Though I'm bothered by the clause in the TOS for FiOS that forbids any servers, personal or commercial (I wonder what they consider a server? That could potentially ban people from using their system as an FTP server to transfer stuff to a friend, or from hosting TCP/IP internet games, or for stuff like winamp's remote media capabilities...).
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Spectere

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Re: Broadband 2.0
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2008, 01:11:15 AM »
Though I'm bothered by the clause in the TOS for FiOS that forbids any servers, personal or commercial

That's nothing new.  Every residential broadband service I've seen has a similar clause in their ToS.
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vladgd

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Re: Broadband 2.0
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2008, 06:18:32 AM »
give...me...250mb/s connection...

i would be bill cosby's sex slave for a connection that fast

then again, that wouldn't be all that bad.  sitting in his house watching his old standup comedy, naked, whilst eating pudding, as he talks about how awesome it is being an old black comedian.

Bobbias

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Re: Broadband 2.0
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2008, 01:20:40 PM »
That's nothing new.  Every residential broadband service I've seen has a similar clause in their ToS.

For some reason I could see this being a much bigger issue with FiOS. With speeds like that, running a server is much more possible, and likely. I mean, I could barely run any sort of server off this connection. 56 kbytes is not a lot of bandwidth for upstream data, but even with the cheapest 2 mbit up is 250 kbytes upload, instead of my measly 56. That's enough to run a relatively small dedicated server for quite a few online games, and then some. I could host 6 listeners listening to a 320 kbit shoutcast stream, if I went with an AAC stream like DI does, I could fit 83 listeners into my stream. 83 listeners isn't bad for a small internet radio station when it's starting up. Even as a relay for a larger station, 83 isn't bad.

And that's on their cheapest tier. I'm thinking that they are much more likely to go after people suspected of hosting a server than normal highspeed ISPs would because of the fact that it's a lot easier to make a server that can support many people on a connection like that.
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Sneaky

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Re: Broadband 2.0
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2008, 04:20:08 PM »
I think if you keep it 'legal', and don't make money off it, then you should be able to use your connection for anything you damn well please, be it MEGARUPLOAD!!!11 shoutcast/dedicated CS servers or whatever. Silly clauses. We're the ones paying an arm and a leg to get this ultimate super ruby emerald weapon internet
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Bobbias

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Re: Broadband 2.0
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2008, 11:28:51 PM »
Yeah. I'm VERY opposed to companies having so much damn power over how you use their services. When I ask for unlimited internet access at X speed up and down, I expect to be able to do whatever the fuck I want with that connection. I mean, sure, some of the clauses in there are to let the ISP do stuff to known hackers and such, to take them off the internet (if things can be traced back and so-on and so-forth, but some of them could probably be used there) but I don't see running a small website, or shoutcast server or something like that as much of a big deal. I mean, if I was running a business for profit, I'd probably buy a server and get some co-location deal somewhere, not run it from home.
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Spectere

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Re: Broadband 2.0
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2008, 11:36:07 PM »
Yeah. I'm VERY opposed to companies having so much damn power over how you use their services.

I agree, but yet I can't help but find the above statement incredibly ironic.
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Zakamiro

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Re: Broadband 2.0
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2008, 12:38:58 AM »
indeed. Also, webhosting costs way less than an at home connection. My webhost 1and1 charges only $5/mo plus $6/year in webhosting... (an additional domain) My shell server hosted by veritynet.net charges me like only $13/mo, and I can run 13 apps at a time, and unlimited bandwidth over a 100mbit connection and static IP. Yep. honestly, for an @ home ISP to say "no servers" is fine.. Renting a server (for those of us with jobs [which are actually hard to come by now])   is cheap. It's really just oversold connection speeds. LIke Google's email, gmail. Does google really have enough storage for its millions of users to use all 7 GB? No... But, if you really want to use all of it, you can. It's just sold like insurance, It only works because not everyone is using it at once.

So, if every comcast customer used their connection to their maximum potential, would comcast bne able to support it? Nope. So, they create that clause not only for bandwidth issues but also because of liability reasons. ("My website went down. and it's comcast's fault I lost money from missed sales!") I'm sure there's also a buttload of other reasons.


We pressed on. Shortly afterwards, we arrived in a poisonous, post-apocalyptic hell - a sprawling, toxic dumping ground stretching for a mile or two. This is the final resting place for your old TV, computer or mobile phone.

Bobbias

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Re: Broadband 2.0
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2008, 01:44:25 AM »
But honestly, if a company says I have 6 GB of email space, I'd damn well better be able to use it, regardless of how many other users are using it.

If an ISP says I have a 10 MBit connection, and unlimited bandwidth, I'd better be able to use it to it's full capacity 24/7 regardless of how many other people are using theirs.

I say a company should be able to deliver everything they promise to every individual at any given time, regardless of how many others they are serving at the same time.

If I'm paying for a 10 MBit connection and unlimited bandwidth, I should get exactly that. Not a connection that mysteriously gets cut in half when everyone else is online.

I should also mention that if you are doing something that requires a heavy duty server, with customized hardware, good luck fidning anything that will fit your needs for cheap. For example, if I need a server to run a dedicated WoW server for say, 1000 people at once, I'd need a fairly beefy machine, and a fairly beefy internet connection. Would one of those cheap hosting sites be able to provide a system capable of running that and not sucking ass? not bloody likely. How many users share a single server at solutions like veritynet.net?

If you were to own your own server and user your personal internet connection to host that server, you'd have a couple advantages: You'd be in the same location, and be able to service it yourself, you'd have less fees to pay, and you'd have the left over bandwidth of your connection to use as you wish (say you had a 20 MBit Down 10 Up connection from FiOS, you'd have most of that 20 MBit down left for your use, since you'd be uploading much more than downloading running a server). You'd be able to deal with server issues much faster than having to notify the company of the problem, get them to call someone in to repair it, wait for the guy to repair it, and then wait till you get told it's back running.

Of course, there are times when that may be a more effective way of doing things (if the repair guys have some hardware on hand to replace damaged/dead hardware and such, or if you know less than they would about how to service/troubleshoot your server), but if you are proficient at troubleshooting/repairing your own server, you can save some money by using your own highspeed connection instead of having to pay fees for the server.

Another aspect is space. Sometimes you may need a large amount of space, but not much else. It might cost quite a bit to get a service that gives you enough space, but you might also end up with a bunch of excess stuff you won't ever use. Hell, If I could get upload speeds of say, 150 KB/s, I'd be running an FTP server on this computer so I could download what I want from my computer whenever I'm somewhere else. I've got 1.4 TB or so of space, but my net is just a bit too slow to make an FTP server worth it. Looking at veritynet.net's server costs, getting 1.4 TB of hosting space with a half decent speed (say 2 MBit/s up) would add up VERY quickly. And that's on top of any home internet costs. The other aspect is that most hosting places charge you for our bandwidth. Hosting at home wouldn't because pretty much every broadband connection is unlimited. If mine wasn't, I'd owe a LOT of money. I've listened to di.fm for over 1200 minutes straight before, that's about 843 MB of music, on top of that 300+ GB I've downloaded through bit torrent, plus the god knows how much downloaded through firefox, and all the other stuff. I would SHRED any bandwidth limitations pretty damn quickly.

Though I will admit that veritynet.net has a pretty decent price range, compared to some stuff I've seen online, it's definitely not cheap to run a half decently sized server.
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Sneaky

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Re: Broadband 2.0
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2008, 03:18:13 PM »
What he sed.
I wish that cake was a lie. :(

I guess he never figured out what Willis was saying :/