Author Topic: THE OMORASHI DISCUSSION BUREAU DISCUSSING OMORASHI SINCE 2009  (Read 178705 times)

MortifiedocAlot

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I'm still "waiting" :/

Yes, that and I'm poor and have no money, at least I'll have a bitchen PC in my room soon.


Spectere

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id say about now the ps3 is a better deal than the 360

being as a good amount of the games for the 360 are out for the ps3, the ps3 has a friggin bluray player, (mgs4, ff13), the games that aren't for the ps3 that are for the 360 are most likley on the pc.

There are slowdown issues with just about every game ported to the PS3 due to how different the Cell microprocessor is.  Unless a game is re-engineered to switch from a SMP-style system to utilize the PS3's SPEs it's not going to run nearly as well.  The PS3's 2 GFLOPS performance figure would be very difficult to attain without heavily optimized code while the 360's 1 GFLOP figure is much easier to attain.

at the same cost, ps3's are looking very appealing right now.  i mean, mainly due to the "THIS THING WON'T BREAK IF YOU PLAY IT FOR SEVERAL HOURS" thing.  i mean, here is a personal example.

They've had that fixed for quite a while now, and Microsoft has been readily fixing RRoDs as they occur for quite some time now.

Also, my friend has had his 360 since the second shipment.  It's Still Alive(TM) and well despite being on for ridiculous hours.  I've had mine for over a year now (mine predates the motherboard swap by a few months) and it's perfectly fine as well (knock on wood).
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Bobbias

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Yeah, I was just thinking that programming for that Cell processor must be a bitch.
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Spectere

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From what I understand, the compilers are pretty optimized for it.  The problem is that you can't just throw code at it like you can with an SMP system -- the SPEs are special-purpose processors.  They can do a fairly simple set of instructions extremely quickly.  This is how Sony can say that their system can achieve performance of up to 2 GFLOPs with a straight face.

If you want to talk strictly about general-purpose instructions, the PS3 actually has a third of the raw power of the Xbox 360.  I believe the reason that some ported games have such issues with the PS3 is because they throw out a lot of general-purpose code (which the Xbox 360 and PCs can deal with very efficiently) that cannot be effectively optimized by the compiler to work well with the SPEs.

When it comes to multiplatform games, the PS3 is always going to suffer because of this in a similar way to how the PS2 did.  The PS2 was actually a very powerful machine, but it is extremely difficult to program for.  I don't really think that the reason the PS2 took off while the PS3 stagnated deals with games at all.  When you look at it, when the PS2 came out, the Dreamcast already had a fairly strong library of games out for it while the PS2's launch titles were...not-so-good.  Logically speaking, the only real things that made the PS2 stand out from the Dreamcast is the backwards compatibility and the ability to play DVDs.  The PS2's DVD playback capabilities were actually a bit better than many set-top DVD players.  Most affordable set-top DVD players only had stereo outputs; the PS2 supported 5.1 surround with its optical output.

Let's fast-forward to the PS3.  When it was released, the HD war was much less clear -- nobody was really sure whether HD DVD or Blu-Ray would win.  The PS3 was launched at too high of a price.  While the PS2 was priced competitively ($50 more than the DC, IIRC, but right on par) the PS3's price point was initially pushed quite a bit over that of the competition (at least $100 over, comparing the 20GB PS3 to the Xbox 360 Premium -- and if anyone starts with that line-item comparison bullshit that so many people try to pull I swear I'm going to delete your post).  The game selection simply wasn't there, and wasn't there for a good chunk of time (meanwhile, the X360 developers cranked out quality titles such as Crackdown, Gears of War, Halo 3, Forza 2, etc).  Sony was also somewhat smitten by their release timing.  I can't really blame them; who would have guessed that the Wii would have wound up being the blockbuster console that it is.  Aside from that, they simply did not have enough units to release at the time.  It's really telling when 24 people can walk into Best Buy on release date and get a Wii yet only 4 or 5 people could walk out with a PS3.

Now, why did I get into this?  Well, I think the main reason that developers jumped so quickly to the PS2 is because it sold so rapidly all over the globe.  Developers actually spent time making their games for the system specifically.  Fast-forwarding to the PS3 yet again, it didn't take off as smoothly as the PS2 did, making it a much lower-priority target than its sibling.  Instead of a slew of games being specifically made for it, developers are taking the safe road and developing multi-platform titles.  Rather than the games being optimized for the PS3, they are likely just cross-compiled, maybe with minimal optimizations thrown in (one notable exception, IIRC, is Oblivion, one of the few ports that was actually done well).

In the dev's defense, the Cell processor is so radically different than the two main next-gen platforms (Xbox 360 and PC) that you really can't blame them for not spending hundreds of man hours dealing with its intricacies.  It's definitely not just a matter of switching some things around.  When you go from having between two to four general-purpose cores to having one core with a handful of DSPs thrown in, you'd start to feel as though you were suddenly reduced to programming for a Pentium 4 with a physics card installed in the age of multi-core CPUs.

On a slightly different note, the PS3's trump card -- it being a cheap Blu-Ray player -- is starting to disintegrate.  Here is a link to a Sony Blu-Ray player that retails for $400.  BR-ROM drives for PCs are even cheaper than that.  What the PS3 needs right now is games.  Hopefully 2008 will be a better year, game-wise, for the PS3.
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Bobbias

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Lots of very good points there. Yeah, programming for a multi-core system like the Cell is a lot different than for a single processor. It's like when you've got a quad core PC, but you're using it to run a program (say, a server for a game, like WoW) that can only run in 1 of the cores. You're going to get shit compared to what you should be getting, performance wise. And re-working the code to run off multiple cores is beyond the scope of a lot of programmers. (hence why many games are still developed as single core only). Albeit that is becoming less of an issue now (and will continue until pretty much every game released is multi-core compatible).
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Alice

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Re: Live Free oar Laemest Repliez Thredd Without A Venginse II: Laem Harder
« Reply #305 on: April 20, 2008, 10:28:39 PM »
IS THIS NECESSARY

THE ANSWER IS YES

discuss failed science in action in the past years

like exploding space shuttles and crashing mars rovers and dubbyah

MortifiedocAlot

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that.  What the PS3 needs right now is games.  Hopefully 2008 will be a better year, game-wise, for the PS3.

From what I've heard, it's supposed to. I wouldn't doubt sony planning this. Also I thought the PS2 had poor sales to start off and hardly any good exclusives but sold well due to it being a cheap DVD player that had games.


Spectere

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Re: Live Free oar Laemest Repliez Thredd Without A Venginse II: Laem Harder
« Reply #307 on: April 21, 2008, 12:07:41 AM »
I think the PS3 sort of lost the advantage of being a cheap next-gen video player thanks to HD DVD being in the picture for so long into its life.  There was a lot of uncertainty until the last major company dropped with most people not knowing which format to get.  Unfortunately for Sony, now that HD's dropped, prices on standalone Blu-ray players have gone down:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8403514&st=blu-ray&lp=1&type=product&cp=1&id=1180743330749

Most people aren't going to get a PS3 just to play movies now because of the complexity in doing so.  The PSP/PS3 both have much better interfaces for playing movies than the PS2 did, but non-gamers are still going to want a familiar remote control and a basic, familiar-looking set-top player.
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Alice

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Re: Live Free oar Laemest Repliez Thredd Without A Venginse II: Laem Harder
« Reply #308 on: April 21, 2008, 01:06:29 PM »
i like how you just continue the topic from before the thread died

I personally would like a PS3... because it's a Blue-Ray player for cheap >:O

Bobbias

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Re: Live Free oar Laemest Repliez Thredd Without A Venginse II: Laem Harder
« Reply #309 on: April 21, 2008, 01:51:59 PM »
For me, each next gen system has it's pluses. XBOX36, well, Halo games, and other good games, nice selection of games. PS3, BlueRay player, plus, if the releases are like PS2 ones, there'll be a number of games I'll like. Wii, Smash Bros Brawl and the arcade for oldschool games, I won't care for many others, since I don't find too many Nintendo games fun.
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vladgd

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Re: Live Free oar Laemest Repliez Thredd Without A Venginse II: Laem Harder
« Reply #310 on: April 21, 2008, 03:30:00 PM »
PS3, BlueRay player, plus, METAL GEAR SOLID 4 OMFG I NEED IT, there'll be a number of games I'll like.

fixd

MortifiedocAlot

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Re: Live Free oar Laemest Repliez Thredd Without A Venginse II: Laem Harder
« Reply #311 on: April 21, 2008, 04:02:00 PM »
I guess we can all agree it's all about that PS TRIPLE.


Alice

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Re: Live Free oar Laemest Repliez Thredd Without A Venginse II: Laem Harder
« Reply #312 on: April 22, 2008, 09:29:43 PM »
hay guise did i mention thers a Top Secret Area on my website

u have 2 look hard 2 find it tho

hint: http://kuroneko.spectere.net/index.php?x=main

i'll giv u ego if u find it, mmm wafflez :)

Bobbias

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Re: Live Free oar Laemest Repliez Thredd Without A Venginse II: Laem Harder
« Reply #313 on: April 23, 2008, 03:23:40 AM »
lawl, ohnoes, SHA-1 craxz0r'd, teh edn of teh wurldd.

Except of course, nobody but a few people in the world could likely ever reproduce her attack successfully. And they wouldn't care about some obscure site that might happen to contain some lame personal information about some obscure nobody.
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jinxie

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Re: Live Free oar Laemest Repliez Thredd Without A Venginse II: Laem Harder
« Reply #314 on: April 23, 2008, 11:05:42 AM »
I'm not the type who orgasms over high def, so regular dvds are still aok for me.. as in, me and dan just use our 360 for playing regular ones.  And as for the ps3, I'd get one, but every game i've wanted on it has come out on the 360...  cept Gundam Crossfire, but we'll see about that one in due time. :D

then once again I am a stingy cheap ass.

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